40 S&W penetrated one inch? Hard to believe

[patton487]

If this has already been posted, please delete.

I found this very interesting. This perp was shot in the chest and mid section several times and continued to fight for over 3 minutes. He had a down filled coat on and the 40 sw only penetrated an inch and did not expand at a distance of 20 feet.
WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS

http://concealedcarryholsters.org/wp-content/files/FBI-Analysis-on-PA-Police-Shootout.pdf

 

[mercop]

Not hard to believe, I experienced the same thing with a guy wearing a leather jacket with a down vest under it. He was shot with a 9 by me, and several other 9 and 40s by other officers. Four rounds of 00 by me ended it. It took him a very long time to expire. The best thing is to move and shoot more instead of standing in disbelief. - George

 

[Kirk Freeman]

40 S&W penetrated one inch? Hard to believe

No, it is not.

I've seen bullets bounce off heads (so much for the beloved "shot placement").

People move, twist, wear armour, wear jackets, move and twist in jackets, duck behind walls, bullets do not perform as the glossy ads tell us, inter alia.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Kind of an ironic tattoo...

Cover, shoot, and move...

 

[Drail]

.40 "short & weak" It's for kids and girl cops. (just kidding)

 

[Lobo]

Patton487, did you even read the analysis at the end of the document for the link you posted? Did you even look at the morgue photos?

The report clearly states that it is impossible for 180 grain 40 S&W to penetrate only 1" without expansion in a human body, and that the Speer Gold Dot 180 grain .40 S&W ammo performed as designed in this gunfight. In fact, the entire document was created to dispel the BS that was originally posted about "1 inch penetration" on the NTOA blog.

From the morgue photos, it doesn't appear that there were any good center mass hits with either .223 or .40. Not surprising that there was no immediate incapacitation. However, since the final photos were taken at the morgue, it appears that the selected calibers did eventually work. Note the broken right arm, caused by a .40 S&W Gold Dot.

Handguns suck. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, regardless of caliber. Keep shooting until the threat is ended.

 

[Demo]

If I am reading that report right it is contradicting the report that said the .40 only penetrated a inch.

Great read though. I'm always surprised by how many shots are fired in these situations. The perp himself got off a whole bunch while literally being shot. Pretty wild.

 

[E'villeGunner]

Excerpted from the link from OP's post.

• Determined individuals can sustain many
gunshot wounds in areas that produce great
pain and continue to fight a long time, even
without the aid of drugs or alcohol.
• Shot placement is everything in a gunfight
and always the key to stopping a threat
effectively.

 

[Lobo]

No, it is not.

I've seen bullets bounce off heads (so much for the beloved "shot placement").

People move, twist, wear armour, wear jackets, move and twist in jackets, duck behind walls, bullets do not perform as the glossy ads tell us, inter alia.

Very true. Contrary to popular belief, "head shots" are not always effective shot placement. While a shot to the ocular cavity will almost always be effective, the forehead and top of the skull is very tough bone. There are several stories of handgun bullets hitting the skull and failing to penetrate, going around the head under the skin and exiting on the side or back of the head. Even .45 ACP. Especially .45 ACP, which is not particularly good at hard barrier penetration with the FMJ ammo that most criminals use.

 

[jeremy]

Clothing can make a huge difference in how a round will perform. There are documented cases from WWI, WWII, and Korea talking of 8mm and .30-06 not penetrating woolen uniforms that were saturated by water...

 

[thekuhnburger]

I hate to see rumors started... especially when it's about my carry load. It's amazing how fragile human life can be sometimes, at the same time it is incredible how much people can endure. Glad to know it was just rumors in the end.

 

[infidel]

Handgun calibers suck.

 

[malern28us]

Handgun calibers suck.

Read the summary of the report. I think it says the .223 was ineffective.
Besides, a .40 shot from a rifle (a handgun caliber) kicks butt!

 

[nova512]

then go with a 44 mag... works for dirty hairy

 

[Joe Williams]

Handgun calibers suck.

I agree. You would be much better off with a shotgun. I just happen to know where you can get a very good one in return for your G26

 

[infidel]

I agree about the shotgun!

That's why I have one in my truck

 

[Jack Ryan]

Clothing can make a huge difference in how a round will perform. There are documented cases from WWI, WWII, and Korea talking of 8mm and .30-06 not penetrating woolen uniforms that were saturated by water...

Got a link to any of those? I'd like to read up on it.

I used to work with a guy who claimed a wet hanky would stop a 22-250 but he wouldn't hold it up for me to test it. He kinda dropped the whole topic after I laid a wet hanky over a piece of 3/8 steel and shot it with one.

 

[indyjoe]

Got a link to any of those? I'd like to read up on it.

I used to work with a guy who claimed a wet hanky would stop a 22-250 but he wouldn't hold it up for me to test it. He kinda dropped the whole topic after I laid a wet hanky over a piece of 3/8 steel and shot it with one.

Did he say the 3/8 steel messed up the "net" capability of the hanky to stop the round?

I don't know if a wet hanky can stop a BB gun.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Did he say the 3/8 steel messed up the "net" capability of the hanky to stop the round?

I don't know if a wet hanky can stop a BB gun.

You know "the guy". Any time more than 2 people are talking he needs to express his expertise. Of course the 22-250 we were discussing reloads and such for was no good. He went on to explain how the slightes water would cause the rounds to explode and I just let him run with it from there until he finished up with his example of testing it for proof.

After getting it set up we just happened to be talking about 22-250's every time he got with in ear shot after that until a new guy happeded to be standing there. Of course he had to run over to make sure the new guy recognised his leading role.

After his full 10 minute run I opened up my tool box. Laid the steel on top. Laid the hanky on that. Then I held them up and looked at him through the hole and ask him, "Where did I go wrong on this?"

 

[6birds]

You know "the guy".

After his full 10 minute run I opened up my tool box. Laid the steel on top. Laid the hanky on that. Then I held them up and looked at him through the hole and ask him, "Where did I go wrong on this?"

You probably welded the damned hanky, ruining the properties of the cotton and nylon weave, idiot.