.429 magnum?

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

I'd be interested to see the differences in water capacity between .44 Mag and .429 DE.

I'm with DH on this one.

 

[Mgderf]

Wow. A lot more actual interest than just mocking.
I'm impressed, with both the D.E. and Ingo!

I might have to watch this new round a little closer.
I really like my Desert Eagle. Haven't fired it much, but now that I have property of my own to hunt on, I might just try it out from my box blind.
The buck I shot from it last season was about 80 yards, and I hit him with a .44mag from a Marlin 1894.
He dropped where he stood.

I could use a sandbag on my window sill.
I'm going to have to set up some targets...

 

[Disposable Heart]

I'm with DH on this one.

Looks like chamber pressure on the .429 is 46k max, whereas .44 Mag is 36K max.

I'm thinking really thick web for pressure. .44 Mag is looking at 37.9gr H20 capacity where I could only find something similar to .429, the defunct .440 Corbon, which is similar, at 50.5gr H20 capacity.

So, I'd imagine that they tweaked the .440 Corbon design to avoid licensing because it appears that .429 DE will chamber in .440 Corbon, but not vice versa. The .440 Corbon seems to have higher listed velocity than the .429 (1800+ fps vs 1625 fps with a 240 gr component).

I would like to know what they intend on doing with this. I think with a Hornady FTX (IF it will feed it, long OAL on those components), you could get .44 mag rifle ballistics with a handgun. Lighter woods carry, LOTS of oomph without bulky or complicated action cycling (bolt or lever action vs just pull trigger, boom, boom, boom). Likely less recoil than a .44 Mag revolver due to the semi-cycling (slide sapping recoil). I see nothing but win, but I can see, since we had things like .400 and .440 Corbon not being market successes, losing steam in 5 years. (side note, I STILL, to this day, load .400 Corbon and found the small primer .45 ACP brass to be a god send for hotter loads!)

 

[BE Mike]

Looks like chamber pressure on the .429 is 46k max, whereas .44 Mag is 36K max.

I'm thinking really thick web for pressure. .44 Mag is looking at 37.9gr H20 capacity where I could only find something similar to .429, the defunct .440 Corbon, which is similar, at 50.5gr H20 capacity.

So, I'd imagine that they tweaked the .440 Corbon design to avoid licensing because it appears that .429 DE will chamber in .440 Corbon, but not vice versa. The .440 Corbon seems to have higher listed velocity than the .429 (1800+ fps vs 1625 fps with a 240 gr component).

I would like to know what they intend on doing with this. I think with a Hornady FTX (IF it will feed it, long OAL on those components), you could get .44 mag rifle ballistics with a handgun. Lighter woods carry, LOTS of oomph without bulky or complicated action cycling (bolt or lever action vs just pull trigger, boom, boom, boom). Likely less recoil than a .44 Mag revolver due to the semi-cycling (slide sapping recoil). I see nothing but win, but I can see, since we had things like .400 and .440 Corbon not being market successes, losing steam in 5 years. (side note, I STILL, to this day, load .400 Corbon and found the small primer .45 ACP brass to be a god send for hotter loads!)

With the likelihood of most potential customers not being reloaders, I'd guess that this new cartridge would be DOA. Anyone remember the popular .45 GAP?

 

[Disposable Heart]

With the likelihood of most potential customers not being reloaders, I'd guess that this new cartridge would be DOA. Anyone remember the popular .45 GAP?

GAP was a complete screw up that was VERY noncompetitive and niche for the political climate at the time in the US. It wasn't killed because of something like an expensive platform (Desert Eagle), hard to carry platform (Desert Eagle) or lack of reloading support. GAP was killed because of the end of the AWB for civilian sales and government sales were stagnant because they didn't have the restriction we did. The going concept was, "if I am going to have 10 rounds or less, I want the largest I can get", which in many people's minds was .45. It was born from and killed by a federal law. I've had all three GAP Glock variants and I can honestly say the Glock 39 was awesome: G26/27 sized, but without the snap of .40.

I would imagine that most folks that buy this will either sell it to someone who does reload or learn to reload quickly. What I might see it doing is going no where because:
-The cult of the .44 Magnum and straighwall, rimmed handgun cartridges
-Bottlenecking any round, like .357 Sig, limits the number of people who want to reload for it. How many times have we heard "I used to reload for .357 Sig but trimming the cases was a pain"?
-Limited application: More power than a .44 Mag but harder to find on shelves and why buy a DE when I can buy a very reliable Smith and Wesson 460 for less?

The cartridge has a lot of bonuses, but its the .257 Ackley Improved of the handgun world: other cartridges that are more prominent and easier to find do the same job, even though .257 is harder hitting and flatter shooting. Face it: When it comes to ammo availability or cost, the shooting public makes alot of compromises when it comes to wants, not needs. (e.g. That Taurus PT92 is cheaper and JUST as good as a Beretta 92, but then magazines are harder to find and the parts that might actually break aren't compatible with Berettas, lol)

 

[BE Mike]

GAP was a complete screw up that was VERY noncompetitive and niche for the political climate at the time in the US. It wasn't killed because of something like an expensive platform (Desert Eagle), hard to carry platform (Desert Eagle) or lack of reloading support. GAP was killed because of the end of the AWB for civilian sales and government sales were stagnant because they didn't have the restriction we did. The going concept was, "if I am going to have 10 rounds or less, I want the largest I can get", which in many people's minds was .45. It was born from and killed by a federal law. I've had all three GAP Glock variants and I can honestly say the Glock 39 was awesome: G26/27 sized, but without the snap of .40.

I would imagine that most folks that buy this will either sell it to someone who does reload or learn to reload quickly. What I might see it doing is going no where because:
-The cult of the .44 Magnum and straighwall, rimmed handgun cartridges
-Bottlenecking any round, like .357 Sig, limits the number of people who want to reload for it. How many times have we heard "I used to reload for .357 Sig but trimming the cases was a pain"?
-Limited application: More power than a .44 Mag but harder to find on shelves and why buy a DE when I can buy a very reliable Smith and Wesson 460 for less?

The cartridge has a lot of bonuses, but its the .257 Ackley Improved of the handgun world: other cartridges that are more prominent and easier to find do the same job, even though .257 is harder hitting and flatter shooting. Face it: When it comes to ammo availability or cost, the shooting public makes alot of compromises when it comes to wants, not needs. (e.g. That Taurus PT92 is cheaper and JUST as good as a Beretta 92, but then magazines are harder to find and the parts that might actually break aren't compatible with Berettas, lol)

I think it is a reach to say that the .45 GAP was born from and killed by a law. I think that Glock figured they'd introduce a cartridge with Glock in the name and the fan boys would come flocking to it (Gaston's hugely inflated ego). I think it is really reaching to say that the Taurus PT92 is just as good as a Beretta 92. I stick with my first guess that the .429 DE will be a flash in the pan.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I think it is a reach to say that the .45 GAP was born from and killed by a law. I think that Glock figured they'd introduce a cartridge with Glock in the name and the fan boys would come flocking to it (Gaston's hugely inflated ego). I think it is really reaching to say that the Taurus PT92 is just as good as a Beretta 92. I stick with my first guess that the .429 DE will be a flash in the pan.

I guess to agree to disagree: Glock introduced GAP to provide a standard grip frame with a .45 caliber cartridge, but Glock was hedging bets that the AWB would be permanently signed into law at the end of it's sunset. It wasn't signed back in and with the collapse of the draconian law, Glock was left with a cartridge that had no need anymore, even when there was barely a need to begin with. Combined with the evolution in tech for 9mm and .40 in terms of hollow point tech, .45 GAP was just a bullet without a need. There's nothing about fanboi-ism there, just Glock offering a really good combo of their smaller grip frame and a rompin-stomping .45 cartridge for the cult of the .45 folks.

The Beretta/Taurus comparison is an example of how the shooting community likes to cut cost corners and will do mental gymnastics to justify their purchase after the fact.

 

[BE Mike]

I guess to agree to disagree: Glock introduced GAP to provide a standard grip frame with a .45 caliber cartridge, but Glock was hedging bets that the AWB would be permanently signed into law at the end of it's sunset. It wasn't signed back in and with the collapse of the draconian law, Glock was left with a cartridge that had no need anymore, even when there was barely a need to begin with. Combined with the evolution in tech for 9mm and .40 in terms of hollow point tech, .45 GAP was just a bullet without a need. There's nothing about fanboi-ism there, just Glock offering a really good combo of their smaller grip frame and a rompin-stomping .45 cartridge for the cult of the .45 folks.

The Beretta/Taurus comparison is an example of how the shooting community likes to cut cost corners and will do mental gymnastics to justify their purchase after the fact.

As I don't keep up with the internal goings on at Glock, I must accept your inside info. I'm one of those rare people who bought a Glock. Tried to love it, but never gave my heart away. Now I'm clear about your comparison comment.

 

[NKBJ]

Hey, if people buy revolving handheld .410 shotguns, just about anything that fires a round probably has a place somewhere.

.41 Mag snake shot rounds were really good for rattlers, copper heads and moccasins but now we live on the corn tundra. So yeah, don't need a .410 revolver.

 

[two70]

With the likelihood of most potential customers not being reloaders, I'd guess that this new cartridge would be DOA. Anyone remember the popular .45 GAP?

With several small, boutique ammo manufacturers producing plenty of oddball cartridges at reasonable prices, loaded ammo will be available. It's not like most DE's are going to see 1000's of rounds through them either so a small premium over .44 mag won't be a huge impediment. Besides, those that want to own a DE just to own one, typically want a .50 AE so that is not the market they are going for here.

 

[Hookeye]

Wonder how many will get a .429 DE bbl as an accessory?

 

[two70]

I would bet that accessory barrels will make up the bulk of .429 sales. Why not if you already have a DE?

 

[Mgderf]

I would bet that accessory barrels will make up the bulk of .429 sales. Why not if you already have a DE?

Well, I have a DE, but mine is .44mag, not .50AE, so I would need a new bolt and magazine on top of needing the barrel.
Someone with a .50AE would only need a barrel to convert to .429mag.

Mags for the Desert Eagles are SPENDY!