45-70 1.8 - some comments and info

[Dwight D]

45-70 1.8 with 300 gr Rem JHP


TIME: 0800-1030

TEMP: 49 DEGREES F. TO 56 DEGREES F.

HUMIDITY: 62%

PRESS: 30.08

LIGHT: SUNNY TO PARTLY CLOUDY

BULLET: 45 CAL, 300 GR REMINGTON JHP

PRIMER: WW LR

PARENT CASE: REMINGTON

POWDER: 37.0 GR IMR 4227

CASE LENGTH: 1.785

CRIMP: MODERATE CRIMP IN CANELURE, OBTAINED BY REMOVING THE COLLET FROM A LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE, AND SHORTENING THE BOTTOM FACE OF IT .305, THEN RE-INSTALLING COLLET IN DIE, AND SET UP AND ADJUST TO CRIMP AS USUAL.

RIFLE: MARLIN 1895 with 22 in barrel and iron sights

DISTANCE FROM MUZZLE TO CENTER OF CHRONOGRAPH: 10 FEET

CHRONOGRAPH: PRO CHRONO “PAL”

CHRONOGRAPHED VELOCITIES

SHOT 1 1854
SHOT 2 1846
SHOT 3 1814
SHOT 4 1819
AVG- 1833 MAX DEV – 40


NO SIGNS OF PRESSURE, RECOIL AND REPORT VERY MILD FOR A 45-70

THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A MAX CHARGE FOR IMR 4227 IN A FULL LENGTH 45-70 CASE LOADED TO SPEC FOR THE MARLIN LEVER GUNS. I HAD A HEAVY CRIMP ON IT BUT THIS LOAD SEEMED VERY UNDERPOWERED TO ME COMPARED TO OTHER 300 GR LOADS I HAVE LOADED FOR THE 45-70 IN THE PAST. I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO USE IMR 3031 BUT THAT POWDER WAS TOO BULKY AND FILLED THE CASE WHEN THE CHARGE WT WAS 10 GRS SHY OF WHERE I WANTED TO START.

THIS LOAD WILL SHOOT ABOUT ?? MOA – SEEMED TO SHOOT OK HOWEVER THIS RIFLE WAS EQUIPPED WITH VERY HARD TO SEE SEMI-BUCKHORN IRON SIGHTS AND I WAS HAVING A HARD TIME SEEING THE SIGHTS

FUNCTION OF THIS LOAD IN THE MARLIN LEVER GUN WAS IFFY. EXTRACTION AND EJECTION VERY GOOD BUT FEEDING IS DIFFICULT DUE TO THE SHORT OAL MAKING THE FEED ANGLE A LITTLE SHARP. IT WILL FUNCTION BUT IT REQUIRES SOME OPERATOR FINESSE. IF I WERE TO PURSUE THIS PROJECT ANYMORE I WOULD CONSIDER CHANGING THE FEED RAMP ANGLE OR POSSIBLY USING A LONGER BULLET.

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DWIGHT’S 45-70 INDIANA 1.8 COMPLIANT


TIME: 0845 TEMP: 55 HUMIDITY: 96% PRESS: 30.14

LIGHTING CONDITIONS: BRIGHT

BULLET: REM 405 GR JSP SEATED IN BOTTOM CAN. BC.281 PRIMER: WW LR MAG

PARENT CASE: NEW STARLINE CASE LENGTH: 1.795


OAL: 2.525 - Crimped in bottom cannelure.

CRIMP: MODERATE CRIMP IN BOTTOM CANELURE, OBTAINED BY REMOVING THE COLLET FROM A LEE FACTORY CRIMP DIE, AND SHORTENING THE BOTTOM FACE OF IT .305 , THEN RE-INSTALLING COLLET IN DIE, AND SET UP AND ADJUST TO CRIMP AS USUAL.

POWDER: VARGET CHARGE: 50.0C

FIREARM: MARLIN 1895 GUIDE GUN, 16 IN NON-PORTED. LEU EURO 1.25-4X

CHRONOGRAPH: PRO CHRONO “PAL” DISTANCE FROM MZ CHRONO: 10FT

TARGET DISTANCE: 50/100 YDS

CHRONOGRAPHED VELOCITIES

SHOT 1: 1555
SHOT 2: 1515
SHOT 3: 1530
SHOT 4: 1516
SHOT 5: 1501 AVG: 1523 MAX DEV: 54

GROUP SIZE: 50 YDS/3 SHOTS/ .75 INCH @ 1 INCH HIGH
100 YDS/3 SHOTS/ 2.75 INCH @ 1 INCH LOW


PRESSURE SIGNS: NONE

RECOIL: NORMAL REPORT: NORMAL

COMMENTS

FULL CASE OF VARGET, VERY SLIGHTLY COMPRESSED WITH A MODERATE CRIMP IN BOTTOM CANNELURE. MADE TO BE SAME OVERALL LENGTH AS A STANDARD FACTORY LOAD TO FACILITATE PROPER FUNCTION IN THIS LEVER ACTION RIFLE.
FUNCTION WAS EXCELLENT.

ACCURACY AND FUNCTION WAS VERY GOOD, FELT LIKE WITH A BETTER CHOICE OF TARGETS AT 100 YDS I COULD HAVE HELD UNDER 2 MOA EASILY.

AT 100 YDS THIS LOAD HAS 272 MORE FPE THEN A 44 MAG 240 GR JSP AT MV 1900 FPS FROM A RIFLE. THE 44 MAG LOAD HAS 1289 FPE AND THIS LOAD HAS 1561 FPE.

 

[17 squirrel]

Interesting, 4227 would not be a powder I would use myself, but that's just me.
It does better in small rifle and magnum pistol cases.
I also hunt with shortened 45-70 cases.
Most of the time I shoot the same 300 grain Rem bullet, but I have been known to shoot a lead 520 grain Postell bullet.
I'm not going to post any loads because I use either a Browning Highwall or a 1886 Browning Lever in 45-70 and I can get about 10 thou more pressure in my Browning. I don't want to cause any oh craps.
It surprises me that the 45-70 is not more popular for deer here with the laws in effect. It's a whole lot easier than having a custom rifle built in Hoosier or some of the other cartridge's.
Good post, Thanks...

 

[Mgderf]

Any data for a shortened .45-70 case using Trailboss?
I want to load for an H&R Handi-rifle.

 

[17 squirrel]

I wish I could help, but I have never burned any Trailboss.

 

[17 squirrel]

Here's some information, the 45-60 case is right about 1.8 long.. About 85% of a 45-70 case. Follow me ?
I would Google loading Trailboss for a 45-60 and I believe you will find more information.. You will probably end up on Castboolits.

 

[Dwight D]

I did not like the 4227 either but I had that and 3031 on hand at that time so that is what I used. I really like the Varget though, and some Leverevolution would be worth trying too perhaps. I believe Trailboss would be way to bulky to try and get any speed from a load with a 1.8 case. I use Trailboss for 308 subsonic loads and its a champ there.

 

[Leadeye]

Good info.

 

[Mgderf]

I did not like the 4227 either but I had that and 3031 on hand at that time so that is what I used. I really like the Varget though, and some Leverevolution would be worth trying too perhaps. I believe Trailboss would be way to bulky to try and get any speed from a load with a 1.8 case. I use Trailboss for 308 subsonic loads and its a champ there.

Leverevolution huh?

I have a pound of that and some LEE 405gr RNFP pills...

 

[Dwight D]

I think LVR would work but there is no starting data that I know of for the 45-70 with Leverevolution, so you would be on your own for load development. Kinda seems a shame to me they have not come up with any load data for the 45-70 and this powder. However Varget and H4895 are good common powders that yield excellent results in the 45-70 so really no need to re-invent the wheel, I suppose. Besides, from my limited experience with the 35 Rem and Leverevolution, it did not live up to the expected velocities anyway.

 

[17 squirrel]

I believe you are better served using another powder that manufactures data is available. Everything I have read with using Leverrevolution powder in 45-70 is a NO go.

 

[djones]

I think we need some pictures to spice this thread up a little. Here is my current load for Indiana deer. Next to a standard 45-70



shot this doe at 80 yards. She ran about 30 yards. Blood trail was great and so is the meat. Marlin 1895gs ported. No clue on velocity but it gets the job done neatly.

 

[redpitbull44]

So you guys aren't worried about accelerated throat wear doing this?

 

[djones]

So you guys aren't worried about accelerated throat wear doing this?

NO

 

[17 squirrel]

So you guys aren't worried about accelerated throat wear doing this?

Nope, 45-70 is far far away from being a barrel burner..

 

[NKBJ]

Haven't used my 45-70 dies since '87 but you fellas are just about talking me into it.

 

[djones]

Haven't used my 45-70 dies since '87 but you fellas are just about talking me into it.

Here is some more fuel for your fire. Took this doe back in 2012 with the 45-70 1.8".

 

[Dwight D]

Djones, glad you showed up on this thread, it was your thread awhile back that got me going down this road. One bit of info that I lost perhaps you could supply. Just how much was it that we had to machine off the factory crimp die on the 45-70? I recorded it on my 35 Rem project but after I had the machinist do my 45-70 die I forgot what it was.

 

[Dwight D]

Accelerated throat wear, nah, I don't shoot these short loads enough to have much concern there at all.

 

[Dwight D]

I'll have to get my camera out and tai some pics of my 45-70, my boys call it the Gorilla gun. I have a full length load that is Bigfoot Approved and will also cure slight cases of cross dominance. Maybe I 'll post about that too

 

[redpitbull44]

Djones, glad you showed up on this thread, it was your thread awhile back that got me going down this road. One bit of info that I lost perhaps you could supply. Just how much was it that we had to machine off the factory crimp die on the 45-70? I recorded it on my 35 Rem project but after I had the machinist do my 45-70 die I forgot what it was.

Somebody PLEASE come up with this info. Case length difference is what, 7.5mm-8mm? Yeah. Modified Die dimensions are very important right now.