45 premium ammo

[tnek]

Im needing to stock up on personal defense 45 ammo and have been using Gold Dot and was looking for info on any current testing and break throughs on uber tactical and ammo that have shocked the world. I know its a can of worms but before I break down and buy a couple hundred rounds Id like to see what new and improved.

 

[edsinger]

<<<Can of Worms>>>


Federal HST - its the best IMHO at this point and time, if you can find it.

 

[jd4320t]

I've heard good things about the Winchester PDX1. I believe the FBI uses it in 40 S&W.

 

[tnek]

<<<Can of Worms>>>


Federal HST - its the best IMHO at this point and time, if you can find it.

Not doubting your word but Im kind of looking for some testing data.

 

[55spartan]

Federal HST double down on that.

 

[hoosierken]

I've switched to Hornady Critical Defense from Hydra-Shocks. In 45 and 38 calibers. I've been doing some researching on the ballistics, trying to stay with unbiased papers. I have not yet been able to do my own yet. I do like the higher velocity of the Hornady with shorter barreled weapons.
As always, my wife tells me I'm wrong a lot so keep doing your own research to be sure.

 

[NIFT]

The data you are looking for is all here:

Terminal Ballistic Information - M4Carbine.net Forums

Among the first 25 "sticky" threads is a mountain of solid information on terminal ballistics and defensive ammunition performance.

About the only person as knowledgeable (or more so) than Dr. Gary Roberts is SSA Buford Boone at the FBI Ballistics Research Facility in Quantico, but Agent Boone will not share the information. Doc Roberts is not bound by the same restraints.

And, yes, the Federal HST rounds are among the best.
The FBI version of the .40 cal. 180 gr PDX-1 is denoted Q4355. Exactly the same ammo per Winchester's lead technical specialist, Paul Nowak.

Happy reading and studying!

 

[cosermann]

Another link for you.

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Gold Dots are still in that upper tier of fairly recently engineered defensive ammunition, IMHO (along with HST, Ranger, and DPX).

Hoosierken, I just haven't seen enough on the Critical Defense loads to change my mind. If you have some links you could post or PM me, it would be much appreciated.

 

[shibumiseeker]

tnek, please don't take this as a flame, it's not:

The debate of which ammo is superior to another is a rather miguided one. Among the modern crop of self defense ammo there is a rather small amount of difference within each caliber, and indeed not much difference between major calibers. To be sure there IS difference, but it's not the important part.

Most people focus on trying to get the optimal ammo, while the optimal ammo may only be a few percentage point higher than less optimal ammos. The REAL performance gain is in getting the training to avoid situations where you may have to shoot in the first place, and THEN if you DO have to shoot, you can get solid shot placement. Because no matter what anyone says, the only thing that may stop an attacker in time is a major central nervous system disruption or a structural shot. Even a powerful magnum shot that destroys the heart can allow an attacker to continue to fight for crucial seconds, even though the shot was fatal.

Most people, even LEOs, do not put in the time and effort to train to the point where differences in ammunition have more of an effect than the ability to get solid shot placement under stress situations.

Again, this was not meant to be a flame, just an observation.

 

[cosermann]

+1 it's easy (and dare I say fun?) to focus on equipment, ammo, etc., but the biggest bang for the buck comes from knowledge and training.

 

[451_Detonics]

Most of the top shelf ammunition is pretty equal when it come right down to it, still no magic bullets out there. I do feel the CorBon DPX does have a slight edge over the rest however. All of them perform well in testing using the standard 2 layers of heavy denim over ballistics gel. The CorBon outperforms them when it comes to other barrier mediums however. For example we tested various ammo using a car door as a barrier and the CorBon was the only ammo that duplicated it's result from the denim testing. In fact there were two additional wound tracks from the little steel discs it cut. It also performed better after going through dry wall and a hollow cored interior door. As a result CorBon is the only ammo I carry in all calibers, I believe it does have an edge over the rest.

 

[tnek]

tnek, please don't take this as a flame, it's not:

The debate of which ammo is superior to another is a rather miguided one. Among the modern crop of self defense ammo there is a rather small amount of difference within each caliber, and indeed not much difference between major calibers. To be sure there IS difference, but it's not the important part.

Most people focus on trying to get the optimal ammo, while the optimal ammo may only be a few percentage point higher than less optimal ammos. The REAL performance gain is in getting the training to avoid situations where you may have to shoot in the first place, and THEN if you DO have to shoot, you can get solid shot placement. Because no matter what anyone says, the only thing that may stop an attacker in time is a major central nervous system disruption or a structural shot. Even a powerful magnum shot that destroys the heart can allow an attacker to continue to fight for crucial seconds, even though the shot was fatal.

Most people, even LEOs, do not put in the time and effort to train to the point where differences in ammunition have more of an effect than the ability to get solid shot placement under stress situations.

Again, this was not meant to be a flame, just an observation.

I agree wholeheartedly but IF one kind of self defense ammo is head and shoulders above and can be demonstrated then thats what Im looking for.

I have seen lots of stuff over the years including the Doc Roberts stuff. Im probably going to stay with the Gold Dot 230s because I know they run in my guns.
I use reloads at reduced velocity for pracitce, , and matches.

I usually only keep enough of the good stuff to fill my mags for carry, night stand gun and a extra of each but since it all XDs they are the same mags.
That means having a couple hundred on hand of the good stuff at most and I usually only shoot those a few times a year just out of habit.

I dont know what everyone else does but it works for me.

 

[tnek]

I was looking and trying to find who sells the HST ammo.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I agree wholeheartedly but IF one kind of self defense ammo is head and shoulders above and can be demonstrated then thats what Im looking for.

The simple answer is: no. The differences in modern premium ammo within a caliber are in the range of a few percentage points.

 

[cranduit]

The best ammo is the one that feeds every time, hits exactly what you want it to, doesn't compromise follow up shots if necessary, and is any one of the fine hollow points on the market. I know that can be an expensive answer, but usually any single one of them will do the job you are asking.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

I've switched to Hornady Critical Defense from Hydra-Shocks. In 45 and 38 calibers. I've been doing some researching on the ballistics, trying to stay with unbiased papers. I have not yet been able to do my own yet. I do like the higher velocity of the Hornady with shorter barreled weapons.
As always, my wife tells me I'm wrong a lot so keep doing your own research to be sure.

Why doesn't Hornady make a Non-Critical Defense load? Couldn't figure out why the defensive situation is "Critical"

 

[NIFT]

I was looking and trying to find who sells the HST ammo.

Can (sometimes!) be found here:
All 40 cal Ammunition

LE ammo is still tough to get--even for LE agencies, with demand outstripping manufacturing capabilities.

I did find some 180 gr. .40 cal. HST at Midwest Gun Exchange the end of last year and bought a few boxes. It had been manufactured to even tighter tolerances for ICE, according to a conversation I had with a Federal Tech Rep.

Just have to do a lot of looking!

 

[ryknoll3]

Two good sources for HST:

Ammunition to Go:
Search Results : Ammunition To Go

Streichers/PoliceHQ:
Federal, CCI, & Speer practice, duty and defense ammo

Both sites have most calibers and bullet weights in stock.

 

[Tombs]

One thing a lot of people tend to not understand.

Stay the hell away from gimmick ammunition and super hot loaded custom ammunition like buffalo bore and what not. This includes extra-light-for-caliber bullets in self defense ammunition. Most of this gimmick super hot loaded ammunition uses target bullets touted as bonded self defense bullets. One vendor even showed up trying to pass off montana gold bullets as self defense bullets at the indy 1500 last time I went. (They shed their jacket and do not expand, ironically they had the "expanded" bullet sitting on the table missing its jacket.)

Go with something affordable, common, that feeds well in your gun, will expand consistently in various conditions, and doesn't have too much recoil for you to fire multiple aimed shots with quickly.

As long as you follow those as guide lines, you will be golden and free of the BS.
I would personally recommend PDX1 as long as it's not a pocket gun/short barrel. You can get it at friggin walmart and it will do everything you need a self defense bullet to do even in the most absurd situation.

 

[edsinger]

Not doubting your word but Im kind of looking for some testing data.

It has to be true, I read it on the internet!


In all seriousness, it was over a year ago when I went down that journey. I settled on Golden Sabre's, PDX1's, and Hornady CD IF I could not find HST's. They are RARE to find and I have yet to find them in 9mm and 38SP.

I wish I would have bought that 2nd box of 45's.

Best I can remember is it offered the best of all worlds at that time but was for Law Enforcement only but you know how that is.


I have not seen any in over a year.