Comparing Lee to Dillon is like comparing a Royles Royce to a Kia. Dillon will kick the pants off Lee in all ways everytime.
+1 to learning HOW to handload before learning how to run a progesssive.
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.45ACP Reloaders: I have $500 and know nothing
- Thread starter Billy Bob Chubb
- Start date
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Comparing Lee to Dillon is like comparing a Royles Royce to a Kia. Dillon will kick the pants off Lee in all ways everytime.
+1 to learning HOW to handload before learning how to run a progesssive.
PM inbound...
I would agree with this, I also don't think you can look at a 20 year old press from Lee and think the new one will be built as well. Dillon on the other hand I think you can.
My first 'progressive' press was a Lee Pro 1000 set up for .357/.38 Spl. There were a couple of chronic issues to be dealt with and learning how to resolve them was frustrating. Both were, and are still, related to the priming system.
The first had to do with primer seating. The Lee seats a primer at the bottom of the stroke which makes learning to recognize the right 'feel' of when a primer has been properly seated just below 'flush' a lot tougher. Using the proper technique is critical and until you learn it, expect quite a few first-strike misfires and be extremely careful to meticulously inspect every single round for "high" primers until you're absolutely sure that you have the right technique down pat.
The second has to do with the primer feed system itself, and it can be a real p-sser. Gravity is all that it depends upon to keep them flowing and unless the entire feed path is kept spotlessly clean, you'll start finding a quickly increasing number of loaded rounds with no primer in fairly short order. Performing this chore as frequently as is necessary is both tedious and somewhat of a PITA, but it is emphatically NOT optional if you want to keep it running.
In comparison, my Dillon SDB in .45 ACP has been virtually fuss-free. I did eventually get a Franford Arsenal vibratory primer tube filler and several extra primer tubes just to be able to get the most production from my (then) limited spare time. If I had a 'do-over' I'd skip right to the Dillon, even though it's not-insignificantly more expensive initially.
Just MHO, but unless your primary goal is the ability to generate sizable numbers of one specific load in one specific cartridge you may want to look into another system first. IME, progressives don't lend themselves well to doing a lot of load development or experimenting, and when you take the cost of dies, shell plates, and all of the other ancillary doodads into consideration, caliber/cartridge change-overs really ain't all that cheap or simple and can involve a good deal of time and effort which could've been more enjoyably spent actually shooting.
IMHO, if you want to load moderate numbers of several different cartridges and/or do a considerable amount of experimenting with different components one of the several 'turret' outfits might be more to your liking. For a good many years (although to be honest this was some time before true 'progressive' loaders became both readily available and affordable for us hobbyists) I used an old Lyman All American turret press for all of my reloading, both rifle and handgun cartridges.
Using the 'batch' system, enough rounds of either for an entire weekend of shooting could be turned out in a single evening or afternoon. And I could have a complete set of dies for one handgun and one rifle cartridge all preadjusted and ready to go with just the change of a shell holder and setting my powder measure needed.
Turret presses have come a long way since then. Instead of having to remove your die set(s) and go through the whole process of readjusting them with every caliber change, you can just swap turrets. A real time saver, believe me.
Just my $0.02 from forty-odd years of trial-and-error. Hope it's of some help.
The first had to do with primer seating. The Lee seats a primer at the bottom of the stroke which makes learning to recognize the right 'feel' of when a primer has been properly seated just below 'flush' a lot tougher. Using the proper technique is critical and until you learn it, expect quite a few first-strike misfires and be extremely careful to meticulously inspect every single round for "high" primers until you're absolutely sure that you have the right technique down pat.
The second has to do with the primer feed system itself, and it can be a real p-sser. Gravity is all that it depends upon to keep them flowing and unless the entire feed path is kept spotlessly clean, you'll start finding a quickly increasing number of loaded rounds with no primer in fairly short order. Performing this chore as frequently as is necessary is both tedious and somewhat of a PITA, but it is emphatically NOT optional if you want to keep it running.
In comparison, my Dillon SDB in .45 ACP has been virtually fuss-free. I did eventually get a Franford Arsenal vibratory primer tube filler and several extra primer tubes just to be able to get the most production from my (then) limited spare time. If I had a 'do-over' I'd skip right to the Dillon, even though it's not-insignificantly more expensive initially.
Just MHO, but unless your primary goal is the ability to generate sizable numbers of one specific load in one specific cartridge you may want to look into another system first. IME, progressives don't lend themselves well to doing a lot of load development or experimenting, and when you take the cost of dies, shell plates, and all of the other ancillary doodads into consideration, caliber/cartridge change-overs really ain't all that cheap or simple and can involve a good deal of time and effort which could've been more enjoyably spent actually shooting.
IMHO, if you want to load moderate numbers of several different cartridges and/or do a considerable amount of experimenting with different components one of the several 'turret' outfits might be more to your liking. For a good many years (although to be honest this was some time before true 'progressive' loaders became both readily available and affordable for us hobbyists) I used an old Lyman All American turret press for all of my reloading, both rifle and handgun cartridges.
Using the 'batch' system, enough rounds of either for an entire weekend of shooting could be turned out in a single evening or afternoon. And I could have a complete set of dies for one handgun and one rifle cartridge all preadjusted and ready to go with just the change of a shell holder and setting my powder measure needed.
Turret presses have come a long way since then. Instead of having to remove your die set(s) and go through the whole process of readjusting them with every caliber change, you can just swap turrets. A real time saver, believe me.
Just my $0.02 from forty-odd years of trial-and-error. Hope it's of some help.
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Some of the best advice I have recieved really has nothing to do with the press. Money spent on quality scales and calipers to measure loads and oal etc. is money well spent. Most any press will make ammunition. The only way to be sure that it is consistent and safe is to be able to measure accuratly. I am a believer in beam scales and use the RCBS 1010 and feel very comfortable recommending it. There are some very good digital scales as well but in my case, temperature varies in my reloading area and that can make digital scales dificult to use.
Good on you for making the first purchase ABC's. also consider some of the other manuals like Lee Modern Reloading.
Good on you for making the first purchase ABC's. also consider some of the other manuals like Lee Modern Reloading.
Delmar has given you the first unbiased advice on the subject. Folks who have never loaded before should at least be presented with the options that are available. In fact, conventional wisdom on the topic is that all new reloaders should start out with a single-stage press, or a turret-style press with any indexing feature turned off, so it behaves as a single stage.
The reason for this is simple: It allows you to learn how to reload...before learning how to run a progressive reloader. The two skill sets are not the same. If a guy I really didn't like said he wanted to get into reloading and asked what press to buy, I'd tell him to get a progressive...if a friend or a stranger asks, there are only two models I would mention.
The RCBS RockChucker is quite possibly the most common and successful reloading press of all time...and for good reason. It will do absolutely everything you are asking of a press, it just won't do it as fast. With reasonable care, it will last your entire lifetime and work just as well for your heirs as it did the day you bought it. The quality and accuracy of the ammo it produces will be limited only by your knowledge, skill and effort. Still, it's not what I'd recommend for someone shooting mostly pistol ammo...the RockChucker shines at loading rifle cases!
For guys who are shooting more pistol rounds than anything else, I would start them out with a Lee Classic Turret. It is somewhere in-between a single-stage and progressive, in terms of how many rounds it will kick out per hour. This press offers several advantages, like a shell plate where your dies remain set up and an auto-indexing feature that allows you to only handle a case one time during the entire reloading process. I will go on record as saying: Any reloader that is not shooting in pistol competitions, or shoots an average of 100 rounds per month, is just as well served with a turret-style press as they would be a full-on progressive!
For your original budget of $500, you could basically be set up with a RockChucker AND a Classic Turret, with several shell plates, and enough components to crank out your first 100 rounds. So, before you drop half a G on just the press, consider how much you'll be shooting, how much time you have to enjoy a cool new hobby, and whether or not you'll have a desire to create precision rifle loads in the future. There is FAR MORE to reloading than cranking out "x" loads per hour. Some of us who've been doing this for decades have no idea how fast we reload...we just know we're bummed when we run out of stuff to do.
Both are very good advice...
You could also take the comment from Broom_Jm about the turret and how it would serve you if you only shot maybe 100 rounds a month and extend it to easily 500 rounds a month. 500 rounds a month could easily be loaded on a turret in maybe a average of ONE hour at the press a week !
Answer some questions about yourself and your personal circumstances before making the decision. Once you realize realistically just how much you are willing to spend on components on a monthly basis, your answer could become much clearer.
Also how much time you want to spend away from home! I would shoot a lot more if I didn't live so close to town and could do it in the back yard. I end up shooting air guns, more than anything else, for that very reason
IMO--1st take Andrews Class,2nd get a reloading book, then work on which press. i did get the Lee pro 1000, you can do over 230 rounds per hour, it does take some time getting the process down. It works very well for me. The 45 acp is easy to reload.
I reload 45acp on a Dillon 550B -- You can get one for about $450 delivered I think
-- Great Machine with a great company standing behind it and the 550 can also be used for rifle which saved me on 223 reloads and maybe 308/30-06 down the road
Dies -- I use Lee on it without a problem for about $30
So lets say $500 invested.
Cost to reload
-- $20 for a pound of Powder that will do about 1400 5 grain loads (7000 grains per pound) -- Cost per reload $0.014
-- Primers are about $30 per 1000 -- Cost per reload $0.03
-- I have been using Berry plated but Hard Lead is even cheaper -- Cost per reload about $0.08 for hard lead
Cases are free essentially -- I used my commercial to reload or picked up some from the range.
Commercial 45acp is about $20/box -- or $0.40 per round
Savings per round -- about $0.25 per round
Payoff for a $500 investment is about 2000 reloaded rounds
UK
-- Great Machine with a great company standing behind it and the 550 can also be used for rifle which saved me on 223 reloads and maybe 308/30-06 down the road
Dies -- I use Lee on it without a problem for about $30
So lets say $500 invested.
Cost to reload
-- $20 for a pound of Powder that will do about 1400 5 grain loads (7000 grains per pound) -- Cost per reload $0.014
-- Primers are about $30 per 1000 -- Cost per reload $0.03
-- I have been using Berry plated but Hard Lead is even cheaper -- Cost per reload about $0.08 for hard lead
Cases are free essentially -- I used my commercial to reload or picked up some from the range.
Commercial 45acp is about $20/box -- or $0.40 per round
Savings per round -- about $0.25 per round
Payoff for a $500 investment is about 2000 reloaded rounds
UK
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Billy Bob Chubb
Plinker
For your original budget of $500, you could basically be set up with a RockChucker AND a Classic Turret, with several shell plates, and enough components to crank out your first 100 rounds. So, before you drop half a G on just the press, consider how much you'll be shooting, how much time you have to enjoy a cool new hobby, and whether or not you'll have a desire to create precision rifle loads in the future. There is FAR MORE to reloading than cranking out "x" loads per hour. Some of us who've been doing this for decades have no idea how fast we reload...we just know we're bummed when we run out of stuff to do.
I want to be able to crank out as many "factory grade" loads as possible and as cheaply as possible in the shortest amount of time possible. If I had it my way, I would live outside of town on land where I could shoot every night. Now I am relegated to half-hour slots at the lanes at Don's Guns. That said, I go about once a week and shoot 100 rounds per...so I'm in the 500 rounds per month range. Shooting indoors sucks but I don't know anyone with land close to me since I'm not from Indiana and don't have any relatives close. The progressive style presses look right up my alley.
To EVERYONE...thank you so much for the advice. I barely understand 25% of the things you are mentioning in these posts because again, I know nothing about this process. My reloading book will arrive today...by the end of the weekend I should be decently up to speed with the process and the different options.
BBC,
There are several gun outdoor clubs around you in H.C., hopefully some who are from the H.C. could give you a better idea of the clubs around you
. Friends don't let friends shoot at Dons!
======================================
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" K. Moss
You can NEVER be too rich or too thin.
Life is not a journey, but a series of unplanned detours...
Perfection: is not a goal---it's a demanded expectation.
Just remember that the powder charge for a 45acp will be very small in the case -- 5.1 grains of Winchester 231 is what I use and you could literally put 20 grains in the case without a problem and cause a overpressure reaction in the barrel which is a very bad thing.
So:
Go Slow (for now)
Make Sure your Powder Measure/Meter is accurate
Make Sure your Powder Measure/Meter drops consistently
Do not have any distractions around you -- start over if you have to -- I will dump the powder in a case back into Powder Hopper and redrop if I am uncomfortable.
I worry the most about the poweder drop
-- Too much and there is an overpressure situation
-- Too little (or none) and the primer could force the bullet into the barrel and if you are in a hurry you could fire another round and have a diaster
Just be careful.
UK
So:
Go Slow (for now)
Make Sure your Powder Measure/Meter is accurate
Make Sure your Powder Measure/Meter drops consistently
Do not have any distractions around you -- start over if you have to -- I will dump the powder in a case back into Powder Hopper and redrop if I am uncomfortable.
I worry the most about the poweder drop
-- Too much and there is an overpressure situation
-- Too little (or none) and the primer could force the bullet into the barrel and if you are in a hurry you could fire another round and have a diaster
Just be careful.
UK
I've got a 25, 50 and 100 yard range off my back deck, load for 20-odd cartridges, and my family and I still don't shoot anywhere near enough rounds to justify a progressive reloading press.
The point about how much you are willing to spend on components each month is a great one! Frankly, if you aren't spending at least a $100 or more, each month, on the supplies to feed a progressive...what's the real advantage? The turret style presses will eat up that much and more, in consumables, and not put a crimp in your social calendar.
Billy Bob Chubb
Plinker
BBC,
There are several gun outdoor clubs around you in H.C., hopefully some who are from the H.C. could give you a better idea of the clubs around you
I HATE DON'S. I asked them what their cheapest box of 50 rounds .45ACP was...$38.99. Ok dude! I've driven out to the country east of Fishers. I'm seriously considering knocking on doors and asking farmers politely if I may shoot on their land...I saw some awesome areas will hills for backstops.
Billy Bob Chubb
Plinker
Damn you!
If you're shooting that much each month, you're right; a progressive is probably what you should get. If you don't plan to shoot any other cartridges, you'll be all set with a Dillon 550. You really need to find another place to shoot, though! The only reason I ever go to Don's is to let a friend try out several different guns/calibers in one afternoon!
I've been reloading metallic ammo for 41 years. Started off with a Lee target model loader with powder scoops, a set of vernier calipers and a Speer reloading manual. Loading was an efficient and inexpensive method to shoot more for less. I then acquired a RCBS JR. single stage press, a Lyman scale, and an RCBS powder measure along with a couple more loading manuals. I then realized that I need more ammo as I lived 40 miles from a good shooting range and it was apparent I was spending more time in travel and less in shooting.
My next step was to purchase a Dillon 450, then an upgrade to a 550, then a 650, then another 650, then a RCBS Rockchucker. ETC, ETC, ETC. I recently took an inventory of my reloading tooling and I was surprised at my investment over the years. I now have graduated to a specialized reloading room away from the main house, A chronograph, and a 200 yard shooting range in the back yard with 4140 metal targets and a permanent target holder. I needed to build a bridge to get to the backstop a couple years ago after the 100 year flood. I purchased a bigger tractor to mow the range and care for the surrounding grounds. Yep, reloading is a cheap hobby(?) but it can be addicting. Good fun, Good shooting.
My next step was to purchase a Dillon 450, then an upgrade to a 550, then a 650, then another 650, then a RCBS Rockchucker. ETC, ETC, ETC. I recently took an inventory of my reloading tooling and I was surprised at my investment over the years. I now have graduated to a specialized reloading room away from the main house, A chronograph, and a 200 yard shooting range in the back yard with 4140 metal targets and a permanent target holder. I needed to build a bridge to get to the backstop a couple years ago after the 100 year flood. I purchased a bigger tractor to mow the range and care for the surrounding grounds. Yep, reloading is a cheap hobby(?) but it can be addicting. Good fun, Good shooting.
raggedoutcummins77
Sharpshooter
Dillon Square Deal B is the only way to go.
I simply don't understand the whole "I like it so it is the only way to go" point of view.
I'm going to make one more plug for simplicity before I drop the subject.
The Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Anniversary Kit
will provide you with darn near everything you need to get started for a little over $100. It is not a Rolls Royce, but it is not cheap junk either. Lee is a great American company with great customer service.Moving up to more expensive stuff is easy to do but you might find out you don't need to. Besides, most serious reloaders find it useful to have more than one press.
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