5.6 Million Jobs Going Unfilled

[HoughMade]

What skills do you have?

It sucks to have jobs moving away. Seriously, but that's what companies do. they always have to some extent, but now more than ever. They are like kids with ADHD, always chasing the next shining object, which seems to be lower labor costs at this point. Manufacturers can not be counted on to provide good wages for unskilled labor anymore. Sad, but true.

Not everything is about college either. Learning a trade is a viable path, either through formal education or apprenticeship (formal or informal). Unfortunately making the good money does not happen until after the skills are learned and you have experience. That takes time and things can be rough in the mean time. I don't have an easy answer for this. Wait, the answer may be easy, but it's hard to do.

It's never "too late". My brother-in-law has a wealth of knowledge and experience in electronics, but no degree, so at age 55, he's working on his engineering degree. Even though gaining more education and skills is always a good idea, I counsel young people, just out of high school, not to jump into a job that seems like good money at the time unless it will help you develop marketable skills. I tell them to spend their early to mid 20s living poor, gaining education or skills so that when they are 40, they will have stories about the way it used to be.

I will, however, reiterate. It's never too late to gain that skill set (machinist, electrician, plumber, mechanic, HVAC, carpentry, cabinet making, etc., etc., etc....even college if it is focused on a specific, marketable vocation) but certainly it's more than a little painful when you have a family to support. College isn't for everyone, but good news- there are good jobs that don't require college, granted, many of those jobs will require some good cold-weather clothing.

 

[Leo]

In a day where "factory" jobs still pay the same as they did in the 70's and 80's, its really hard to raise a family on $40k a year. I have no problem getting my hands dirty. I don't have a college degree, and have no issue learning new skills/tasks. However, when employed by a company that continues to produce "record profits" and hire new plant managers making more and more money, it is hard to work your dick in the dirt, while making $40k a year, when houses cost $80k-$150k and vehicle prices are absolutely ridiculous. All the jobs that pay a wage that can sustain a family, and reward the hard work require a 4 year degree, usually more, and it doesn't even matter if the BS or BA is in the related field.

I really get sick of hearing out today's youth has it "easy", from the older guys, who went and punched the clock for 40 hrs a week, and were able to buy NEW cars, and a house and have/raise a family. Not to mention, put their kids through college and save for retirement. Now, to do that, specifically in a factory setting, it would require 20 more hours a week minimum, basically killing any work/life balance. I don't particularly want to be remembered by my friends and family as only a "dedicated employee".

Alas, the Midwest is losing manufacturing jobs, and probably wont be getting any back, due to labor relations records. (This is local to my small town but I don't think it is exclusive to it). So, here I sit now, as a customer service rep, at a desk (which is boring, meddlesome and redundant) making the same money I didn't in a "get your hands dirty" job. I don't build anything, make anything, or see any real accomplishment. The 3 signs of a miserable job are heavily relevant here, 1. Measurability 2. Annonimity 3. Relevance. I never really know how well I am doing on Quality or Productivity. My supervisor is obliviously absent, which basically turns my department into a circus daily and there really is no reason why I do what I do. Most of it could and should be automated.

So, I am tasked with now looking for meaningful employment, that is with a company that hires character and trains skill, that pays well enough to support a family, while rewarding the effort put in to be able to afford more than ramen noodles and a rent house will having a 20 year old vehicle parked on the street. Eff me, right?

I wouldn't be opposed to furthering my education, if I know it will be useful, and compensated correctly. I don't particularly care to toss around $20k-$40k for ****s and giggles.

It is and will continue to be difficult for this generation. I am here to tell you that 1972 was no picnic either, at least in the South Side of Chicago. Today's obscene debt loads on the taxpayers due to obscene spending habits, that mostly subsidize the non productive. And that subsidy is not limited to the welfare class, some of the non productive are in the state house and capital hill. Government intervention in the way a private business is run, Costly EPA mandates that have gotten to a zero return for the money. Subsidy for companies to ship slave labor product into this country. All this has stacked up against business and the working class.

I really feel sorry for my grandchildren. Like you, they will have to try to live while the country is sliding down on greased skids. My generation did not start it or cause it, but we were not able to do anything to stop it. I am sorry to say, that even a decent college education is no guarantee to a good life, at least not any more. I do recommend any degree or certification you can get. ( I got my last sheepskin when I was "only" 48). It may give you a little leverage at job cut time, and it may give you a little leverage at the next interview.

Good luck you you Roll Tide, and all the others like you. Try not to concentrate on the current stresses. Like a good quarterback, look for way around the blockers. You might come up with some really slick solutions.

 

[blackenedman]

Pardon me if I don't turn to him on solving a national problem.

Generally, I agree with a lot that Rowe says.

But I recall looking at some of the Rowe-branded merch he sells, and it appeared to be made overseas... Disappointing.

 

[MisterChester]

It is and will continue to be difficult for this generation. I am here to tell you that 1972 was no picnic either, at least in the South Side of Chicago. Today's obscene debt loads on the taxpayers due to obscene spending habits, that mostly subsidize the non productive. And that subsidy is not limited to the welfare class, some of the non productive are in the state house and capital hill. Government intervention in the way a private business is run, Costly EPA mandates that have gotten to a zero return for the money. Subsidy for companies to ship slave labor product into this country. All this has stacked up against business and the working class.

I really feel sorry for my grandchildren. Like you, they will have to try to live while the country is sliding down on greased skids. My generation did not start it or cause it, but we were not able to do anything to stop it. I am sorry to say, that even a decent college education is no guarantee to a good life, at least not any more. I do recommend any degree or certification you can get. ( I got my last sheepskin when I was "only" 48). It may give you a little leverage at job cut time, and it may give you a little leverage at the next interview.

Good luck you you Roll Tide, and all the others like you. Try not to concentrate on the current stresses. Like a good quarterback, look for way around the blockers. You might come up with some really slick solutions.

I am a millennial, and I am quite jealous of previous generations. Good jobs out of high school with pensions? It's like they actually cared about their employees and retaining them!

 

[ghuns]

College isn't for everyone, but good news- there are good jobs that don't require college, granted, many of those jobs will require some good cold-weather clothing.

We are going through this with my 18 year old daughter. She doesn't want to go to college. She hates school. She doesn't know what she wants to do. She doesn't want to go into debt to find out.

That's all fine. There are jobs that don't require college. But for women, the options shrink significantly.

She has always had good grades, good test scores, been a hard worker. There's no reason she can't continue at here $10/hour job, go to IUSB full time, live at home, and graduate debt free.

Well, there's one reason. Her dad thought of that. So it's automatically a bad idea.

 

[HoughMade]

...Well, there's one reason. Her dad thought of that. So it's automatically a bad idea.

As the father of a 16 year old girl and 18 year old boy...I am familiar with this phenomena.

You can always tell her that some random guy on the internet says that he enjoyed college a lot more than high school and law school even more than college....not that anyone should consider law school.

 

[ghuns]

As the father of a 16 year old girl and 18 year old boy...I am familiar with this phenomena.

You can always tell her that some random guy on the internet says that he enjoyed college a lot more than high school and law school even more than college....not that anyone should consider law school.

We just took her to visit our son at college. She met up with some of her friends that go there. The one said, I hated high school, but I LOVE it here. It had no effect.

All she cares about right now is the next time her marine, who is currently in the school of infantry, get his phone back.

 

[dshaf]

I have worked in a factory for 30 years. It used to be a geat place to work. It is now a place governed by corporate greed. Small if any raises that are far less than the increase in inflation, no retirement plan, insurance so high you are forced to take a high deductable plan, upper management awarding themselves big bonuses while the real producers of product get nothing. This is why im encouraging my son not to work in a factory setting. Wonder how the Carrier folks think about this topic. Bottom line is get an education that gives you option!

 

[billybob44]

In the mid 90's if memory serves me correctly, our top techs were making 50-70k

I was a service manager at a new car dealership many years ago, even then we had a huge problem finding "good" techs. "Good" being defined as reasonably intelligent, showing up on time, showing up each day, coming back from lunch, not a thief & able to pass a pee test. In the mid 90's if memory serves me correctly, our top techs were making 50-70k per year.

Yep, I was right there with you--As a Master Tech. I was hitting a little over the High end that you listed during those years.

Then the Dealers decided to add a layer of management=Service Director=Over Service, Parts, and Body Shop..

The job of the Service Director was ONLY to find out how to make more profit--From the customers, or the EASY WAY=off the backs of the people in these three departments!!

I walked into that Dealership in June of '77' and was paid 50% of each Flat Rate Hour that I turned..

I walked out of that Dealership in August of 2010 at the rate of 22.5% of each Flat Rate Hour that I turned...

I was a loyal employee during those years--The Dealer NOT so much...Bill.

 

[jd4320t]

In a day where "factory" jobs still pay the same as they did in the 70's and 80's, its really hard to raise a family on $40k a year. I have no problem getting my hands dirty. I don't have a college degree, and have no issue learning new skills/tasks. However, when employed by a company that continues to produce "record profits" and hire new plant managers making more and more money, it is hard to work your dick in the dirt, while making $40k a year, when houses cost $80k-$150k and vehicle prices are absolutely ridiculous. All the jobs that pay a wage that can sustain a family, and reward the hard work require a 4 year degree, usually more, and it doesn't even matter if the BS or BA is in the related field.

I really get sick of hearing out today's youth has it "easy", from the older guys, who went and punched the clock for 40 hrs a week, and were able to buy NEW cars, and a house and have/raise a family. Not to mention, put their kids through college and save for retirement. Now, to do that, specifically in a factory setting, it would require 20 more hours a week minimum, basically killing any work/life balance. I don't particularly want to be remembered by my friends and family as only a "dedicated employee".

Alas, the Midwest is losing manufacturing jobs, and probably wont be getting any back, due to labor relations records. (This is local to my small town but I don't think it is exclusive to it). So, here I sit now, as a customer service rep, at a desk (which is boring, meddlesome and redundant) making the same money I didn't in a "get your hands dirty" job. I don't build anything, make anything, or see any real accomplishment. The 3 signs of a miserable job are heavily relevant here, 1. Measurability 2. Annonimity 3. Relevance. I never really know how well I am doing on Quality or Productivity. My supervisor is obliviously absent, which basically turns my department into a circus daily and there really is no reason why I do what I do. Most of it could and should be automated.

So, I am tasked with now looking for meaningful employment, that is with a company that hires character and trains skill, that pays well enough to support a family, while rewarding the effort put in to be able to afford more than ramen noodles and a rent house will having a 20 year old vehicle parked on the street. Eff me, right?

I wouldn't be opposed to furthering my education, if I know it will be useful, and compensated correctly. I don't particularly care to toss around $20k-$40k for ****s and giggles.

How big of a family? $40,000 being the only single income?

I don't think we can compare today to then. Most people spend money on a LOT of things that people didn't back then. Personally, I could probably have two more new vehicles or at least one really awesome one if I didn't have such expensive hobbies.

Of course I don't know anything about you but I can't help but think a $40,000 income in the Connersville area is pretty good.

 

[INPatriot]

The greatest thing my parents (who were completely unaware of what they were doing) did for me was raise me to be an entrepreneur. I descend from farmers and factory workers. Education was never pushed in the house growing up, giving maximum effort and maximum drive and commitment in every endeavor was pushed. I am in my early 30's. I have a college degree but learned more in a 1,000 hour internship during college than I did in four years of undergrad. For what its worth, I was in the small, small minority in my education track at a big school that did not go to grad school.

I believe four year degrees are overrated. I believe technical schools, two year degrees and the trades are underrated. Degrees claim to teach what, but they certainly do not teach how. Personally, I think they teach one how to master getting stuck in the system and needing another degree to use the previous one and building the victim mentality while giving more time to indoctrinate. I found someone that was doing what I wanted to do while I was in college. I worked for him building his business, after 1,000 hours he allowed me to use his equipment to build my business and took a cut of what I grossed. My senior year, I finished my degree and was working 50 hours a week.

After a few years, I decided to move my business to my own location. I have grown the business. I have expanded the business. I have overshot supply lines. I have closed down a location. Most importantly, I have learned. Self-employed/entrepreneur/business owner..its fantastic. Its my calling. Its what I will encourage my children to chase. Its also stressful, unpredictable, crazy and often times I wonder what the hell I am doing.

However, I do believe the best way to win financially is staying out of debt and being self-employed. I do not get paid time off. I get paid extra once everything else has been paid. But I am also setting myself up to win, whether it be with creating new revenue streams within the business, creating new ventures related to the current business or learning from mistakes and starting new businesses completely unrelated.

Being self-employed/entrepreneur/business owner may not be for everyone but it sure is a return to the roots upon which the Republic was built.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I am a millennial, and I am quite jealous of previous generations. Good jobs out of high school with pensions? It's like they actually cared about their employees and retaining them!

You also have to consider that this was supported by most people categorically refusing to buy anything of foreign manufacture and many refusing to buy anything that was not the product of a union shop. It seems largely forgotten that this was a large source of union leverage for decades. We also did not have self-destructive trade agreements in generations past. Between these two things, much of the stability was cut out from under our job market and our economy.

 

[ghuns]

You also have to consider that this was supported by most people categorically refusing to buy anything of foreign manufacture and many refusing to buy anything that was not the product of a union shop.

You also have to consider that American made products were once superior.

I walked into that Dealership in June of '77' and was paid 50% of each Flat Rate Hour that I turned..

I have heard old time tool makers say that up until the mid 70s, top journeyman's rate was 3/5 of the shop rate.

 

[Roll Tide]

How big of a family? $40,000 being the only single income?

I don't think we can compare today to then. Most people spend money on a LOT of things that people didn't back then. Personally, I could probably have two more new vehicles or at least one really awesome one if I didn't have such expensive hobbies.

Of course I don't know anything about you but I can't help but think a $40,000 income in the Connersville area is pretty good.

Well, no. $40k a year isn't good. Family of 4. I work an hour away from home to make that $40k. There aren't any jobs in Connersville that pay that, unless you are a politician. Connersville's largest employer is the hospital, next is the municipality, then Walmart. So, I drive 400 miles a week. Much easier to do when gas prices drop. 2 kids in daycare, at $900 a month. Healthcare costs are higher, insurance is higher. I have an extra vehicle for emergency situations (paid off).

You stated that people spend money on a lot of things today, that people DIDNT back then. That's true. I wish I could say that goes the other way as well, as we don't have land line phone service, because we have cell phones. The cost have things have gone up, and the pay income has not to the point of keeping up. That was my point. Having a land line at home, doesn't do me much good an hour away from that home, at 10:00pm, in the middle of the corn fields of Indiana. People back then could walk to work, as it was typically only a few blocks to work. Not the case here. We live where we live, due to family obligations for property. My situation is probably a bit different than most in that regard. I don't want to come of as a whiny ***** so I'll just stop and man up. haaha.


Again, I will reiterate. I have been a fan of hiring character, and training skill. I am willing to learn, willing to develop and change. I work in a department with 6 other people. 5 of them have college degrees in a "Business" study, whether it be business management, or whatnot. Not a single one of them can create even the simplest of spreadsheets in Excel. Let alone navigate it. I have trained 2 of them, in my time here. They all make more money. Can't even navigate Excel. With a business degree. Why again should I go pay a university all that money to give me a piece of paper that is basically a receipt that I paid my money and came to class?

 

[HoughMade]

Don't want to go to college? Don't. Certainly, it's your choice. It may not make any sense that people doing the same job as you, not as well, make more money because of the "piece of paper". But that's reality. If you want a different life, you'll have to do something about it. Complaining about how it's not fair, whether you're right or not, isn't going to change anything.

As for why you should pay a university all that money, maybe you shouldn't, but the other people in your department seem to be getting some sort of return on their investment.

 

[MisterChester]

You also have to consider that this was supported by most people categorically refusing to buy anything of foreign manufacture and many refusing to buy anything that was not the product of a union shop. It seems largely forgotten that this was a large source of union leverage for decades. We also did not have self-destructive trade agreements in generations past. Between these two things, much of the stability was cut out from under our job market and our economy.

It was a totally different time. Seems like both companies and unions got too greedy for their own good, and the workers lost.

 

[Roll Tide]

Don't want to go to college? Don't. Certainly, it's your choice. It may not make any sense that people doing the same job as you, not as well, make more money because of the "piece of paper". But that's reality. If you want a different life, you'll have to do something about it. Complaining about how it's not fair, whether you're right or not, isn't going to change anything.

As for why you should pay a university all that money, maybe you shouldn't, but the other people in your department seem to be getting some sort of return on their investment.

I agree with you. Changes are coming. I'm not sure the ROI of that piece of paper is worth it though. I was afraid my statements and sentiments would come off as complaining. I suppose there was no way around it, other than just being quiet.

 

[Expat]

Universities should go back to making their studies more rigorous and difficult. When my daughter went to IU-B, from what I could see many of the people there had no business being in college. It was certainly a different atmosphere than when I went there. They should get rid of the fluff majors that have no real world use or need. Unfortunately many of our high school kids would not be prepared for actual college level work, so the changes would need to be made on down the line as well. We need a complete change in our education industry.

 

[IndyDave1776]

It was a totally different time. Seems like both companies and unions got too greedy for their own good, and the workers lost.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Universities should go back to making their studies more rigorous and difficult. When my daughter went to IU-B, from what I could see many of the people there had no business being in college. It was certainly a different atmosphere than when I went there. They should get rid of the fluff majors that have no real world use or need. Unfortunately many of our high school kids would not be prepared for actual college level work, so the changes would need to be made on down the line as well. We need a complete change in our education industry.

Elimination of 'participation trophies' (which is what the modern HS diploma is, and made so to artificially boost graduation rates, and college sheepskins have also become) and demanding real achievement for official recognition necessarily has to be the starting point.