585 HE -- Cases In Production --

[hubel458]

Here is picture of 585HE with 24ga FH ...585 the longer one.
Both use same bullets/slugs, same caliber rifled barrels.
Different easy usages, 24ga FH is an easy setup in break
actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.

Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
someone pulled out, and they wouldn't stay in tight after pulled.
Supposed to be for 20ga, But this sabot was a real loose fit
in 20ga, though made for 20ga, so I shrunk diameter of bottom rib,
fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE brass cases. A press
in tight fit gives good resistance for good ignition. real tight fit.

Here is a 24ga/585 discarding sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol
bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal Muzzle loaders..
With 250 gr bullet in 585HE, hopped up load will go about mach 4.

For ease of getting actions in stocks, I like composites.They are
strong. come colors, many can be painted with tough finish paints.
Usually need weight added for big bore use. But not too miuch..
An easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect, without being
too heavy if using that much lead. And coating keeps them quiet, and
we hold them in, with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed

 

[hubel458]

Now that lower Michigan shotgun area is letting folks use pistol cases in
rifles like Indiana. why gp less power , when both states hunters can do a 24ga FH,
in a readily available rifled barrel, with brass cases for over twice the power.. Ed

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I have just stumbled across this thread. Are these dangerous game safari rounds?

 

[hubel458]

Yes with the solids and jacketed and turned 650-750 gr bullets they are great for DGs.

First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankhunter with his Ruger #1.


If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide


next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed

I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets
and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
or wide hollowpoint. .

Here is pic of a Enfield with a jeweled and polished bolt, going
to be 585HE. In the back, Bolt jeweling and polishing done by the
great craftsmen, Bob Snapp, years ago.

Picture comparing unfired and fired cases showing our tough cases
One on the left fired with 650gr at 2400 and base above belt
didn't hardly expand, Sized the top and reloaded/shot again.
And AHC will make guns now with our 585HE for any wanting
super top quality guns.They have some cases to give to guys
as a sample to show guys the case. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
to our 585HE the strongest yet.


The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.


Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the caseheads 24 ga.


For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.


Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.


Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.

Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.

Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.


The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,
and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
in stockj, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed

 

[hubel458]

Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.


And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.

I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
like me can do.....

A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is what a 585 bull barrel blank looks like,


1 5/8" OD and 32" long. May put it in a heavy action.


Fourth one from the left. Ed

 

[hubel458]

For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
mach 4 with a top load..

Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks.
One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed

 

[hubel458]

They are importing another pallet of our cases getting here
to the states in next few weeks. To add to these and others in
barrels, to get us a big enough volume, to get some in the hands
of a few catalog dealers and reloading supply stores.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
fairly streamlined..

But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed

 

[hubel458]

In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
here. Another pallet load of cases coming.


Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
target work.

Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
on the front. Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while
we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available
in stock in AUS, many guys with Trex guns can't get cases.

Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our
585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.

Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields
fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and
it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its
own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we
adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.

And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.


Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties,
this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs
we know of, and most can easily found. Ed

 

[hubel458]

There is couple 585 videos on Swann Gunsmithing's Facebook site;


Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1, that was done in Australia, set up


for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That gun killed


the first AUS buffalo by a 585HE, that I posted picture of above. You can


go direct to the page and click on the videos to watch the test firings..


https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos




Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI stock, with the


style of a CZ stock, that a guy is setting up. The stock will be finished brown


and metal finished with a Gun Kote finish...Ed

 

[hubel458]

One of the first of modern 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2, the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum,
was first in records in the fifties, It was made from BMG brass shortened to 2.70" long
and necked up from 50 cal to .585".


They rebated the rim quite a ways to fit 98 Mauser bolt.Used a special action.
Listed as a shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under
a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case, where our 585HE holds
180gr under a 750gr'.


We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base
and would need a BMG sized bolt and action. I'm glad to be a big bore wildcatter,
and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and new. Years ago when
guys did big wildcats they took what was available, to rework, and
they could have used the 3" spotter case if they could have found a barrel full.Ed

 

[hubel458]

Probably first 375 caliber cartridge made from 585HE necked down, the 375 Warlord.


Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a Weatherby style shoulder.


Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no headstamps for wildcatters.


First picture I got sent me today off of facebook and this one is from the great sniperforums.

Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE to maybe 2.4", for use Marlins and Henrys,


and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt they will have good headspace control.


Without a rim that takes up circular space, say like our 24ga FH, but which is perfect for


break actions like our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed

 

[throttletony]

Very interesting projects, thanks for posting!
That thing looks like quite the thumper!

 

[hubel458]

Another action we found that isn't priced 3 grand


or more that will work great for our 585HE is the


Stiller bolt action that is made for Cheytac based


cases. Less than 1200 dollars. Compares in size


to the Montana PH actions we have put the 585 in.Ed