80% Lower Party? Ideas and help appreciated.

[Socomike]

FWIW, I understood what you were getting at. To manually run one out on a Bridgeport takes a good bit of time. However, if one programmed it in on a decent 3+ axis cnc mill or Bridgeport conversion, the time drops immensely. Even a good multi-tool readout system would cut the time down after the first one were done. Especially since these are aluminum parts (any idea of the metallurgical composition? 6061, 7075, etc?).

What I was getting at though, is the equipment needed to run multiple items in a "party amount of time"is not usually found in someones garage. I have everything one would ever need or want to do this and would love to host. The issue is that I can't have a group of people in my shop building firearms. Imagine the legalities of the situation. What if someone got hurt? What if one of these lowers found it's way into the hands f a criminal and used in a crime? It eventually gets traced back to me and then a non FFL holding machining company manufacturing and distributing firearms. Best case scenario, I'd lose everything. Worst case, I'd be in jail.

Heck, the same thing could happen from a homeowner standpoint. Your insurance company does know you have industrial machine tooling being used in your garage, right?

I see your point. There are some concerns for sure.

 

[Scout]

Ive got a mill. Ive been thinking about converting it to cnc.

 

[silentvoice71]

Flaspuppy theres a loy more to it than you think. The only thing id worry about is someone hurting themselves. Other than that you dont need a ffl you are not manufacturing.... You can actually help then with the first passes.

 

[bwframe]

... I have found a company that will coat the lowers. They have a minimum and you could probably do 3-4 lowers within the minimum charge. I also found a guy to engrave them.
...

Are you talking creating serial numbers?

 

[flashpuppy]

Flaspuppy theres a loy more to it than you think. The only thing id worry about is someone hurting themselves. Other than that you dont need a ffl you are not manufacturing.... You can actually help then with the first passes.

I know you don't know much about me, but trust me there is not anything more to it than I think. If you walk into a gunsmith and ask him to finish your lower for you, he'd make you get a SN on it and then fill out a 4473. You walked in with a block of aluminum, you left with a firearm. A group of guys, finishing 80% lowers, in my shop, on my equipment, under my supervision is in fact the DEFINITION of manufacturing. How else would you define manufacturing?

Say a guy that works at Yankee Hill Machine (totally random, nothing intended or implied) stays late one night and finishes out a partially machined lower for himself and invites a group of guys along to do the same. Legal? Not a chance. Just because I do not hold a current FFL does not change the rules for my business.

 

[gregkl]

Are you talking creating serial numbers?

Possibly. But mostly the "safe" "fire" markings and any kind of logo or caliber markings I might want. I am pretty sure I will put a number on it so if I ever wanted to register it, I wouldn't mess up the anodizing by adding a number later.

 

[bwframe]

Register it? There is no registration, here anyway.

My concern is that an unnumbered gun might be subject to confiscation? We know it's legal, but LEO's may not.
What is everyone's plan for this?

 

[Purdue Plinker]

Register it? There is no registration, here anyway.

My concern is that an unnumbered gun might be subject to confiscation? We know it's legal, but LEO's may not.
What is everyone's plan for this?

From reading other people's threads about this issue on other places, the best practice seems to give it some sort of number just for your personal use and decreasing the likelihood of having to explain it or dealing with the trouble. More importantly, if it were ever stolen... it'd be good to have some identifying information.

flashpuppy has legitimate concerns and anyone who organizes it should be careful and whatever party plan should likely be run by someone with very deep understanding of the laws involved. IF you find someone with a CNC and willing to let a party group use it, there was even some question I found about is the person who presses run the 'manufacturer' of their own firearm, or should they put in more effort like working on the g-code. Using a mill yourself, even under supervision, is more direct and physical... but things get blurry with CNC.

When discussing it previously, it seemed like the best approach to have the party organized more towards trade education and learning, rather than just trying to basically have someone manufacture it for you while you watch and sorta participate. If you could happen upon someone with multiple machines, maybe it would take 2-3 hours say instead of 2x# of party members. But that might be a challenge to find someone with those resources and willing to host. (Liability and such)

But if someone can make it happen, I'd like to join in.

 

[gregkl]

Register it? There is no registration, here anyway.

My concern is that an unnumbered gun might be subject to confiscation? We know it's legal, but LEO's may not.
What is everyone's plan for this?

Well, I don't know the proper word to use but if I wish to sell it one day or pass it on to a family member it has to have a serial number and have the form filled out and called in to the BATF. That is why I will put a number on mine. I won't have to volunteer to fill out the form because I put a number on it, but I have the option.

If you choose not to fill out the form, then you are the only person that can own it.

If I understand the laws correctly, it is not subject to confiscation just because it does not have a number on it. However, if it was every stolen, having the number could help in recovery.

 

[bwframe]

Well, I don't know the proper word to use but if I wish to sell it one day or pass it on to a family member it has to have a serial number and have the form filled out and called in to the BATF. That is why I will put a number on mine. I won't have to volunteer to fill out the form because I put a number on it, but I have the option.

If you choose not to fill out the form, then you are the only person that can own it.

If I understand the laws correctly, it is not subject to confiscation just because it does not have a number on it. However, if it was every stolen, having the number could help in recovery.

I see, your "registering it" actually makes it a sale able item?
My reference to confiscation was if LEO discovered an unnumbered gun during a routine check that they might confiscate it (and maybe you) while they were sorting out the legalities.

 

[gregkl]

I see, your "registering it" actually makes it a sale able item?
My reference to confiscation was if LEO discovered an unnumbered gun during a routine check that they might confiscate it (and maybe you) while they were sorting out the legalities.

Correct. If I take it to a FFL dealer and have them run the paperwork just like I was buying a gun, then it could be treated just like any other firearm. This is if I understand the laws correctly. If I get mine and end up finishing it, I will verify this. If I don't finish it, I can sell it to anyone since at 80% its not considered a firearm, just a piece of metal, art, paperweight, whatever.

I see on the routine check. I wonder what a cop would do if he saw there was no serial number on it. I do know it is big trouble if you remove a serial number...

 

[nucular]

I don't see the point in registering it. You might as well buy a 100%.

 

[silentvoice71]

......you only have to number it IF YOU WANT TO. To sell it you have to stamp it with your information....name adress that is it. You can only MAKE AND SELL 49 a year. You can make as many as you want no numbers. The police officer cant do crap! Tell him its a home made gun and does not require a sn.

 

[silentvoice71]

Good info here kids..... Read and really put your thinking caps on
ATF Ruling 2010-10 | ATF

 

[bwframe]

...The police officer cant do crap! Tell him its a home made gun and does not require a sn.

Understood. Are the cops gonna listen to your advice? Or are they going to confiscate your gun and possibly even hold you until they can verify?

 

[gregkl]

I don't see the point in registering it. You might as well buy a 100%.

For me it was the $35 price tag and the fun of doing my own machining.

 

[silentvoice71]

So what will the cop detain you for? Got a reason? Home made guns are leagal. Being detained for that will more than likely cause a lot of trouble for the dept