9-11 museum to include hijackers perspective (NON-emotional discussion thread)

[Paco Bedejo]

The PRO-emotional thread started by femurphy77 is going to be here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo..._museum_to_include_hijackers_perspective.html

I thought it might be nice to make a place for people to discuss the 9/11 Museum's decision without it devolving into a ranting circle jerk about how people with brown skin hate our freedoms & need to die. I'm genuinely trying to help by creating a parallel thread about something I view as important & I hope to have some GOOD non-emotional discussion in here.

PS: Please refrain from using empty words such as crazies, wingnuts, moonbats, whackjobs, evil, etc. They add nothing to the discussion.

The article is here: New York's Sept 11 museum to display hijacker perspective - Yahoo! News

My non-emotional thoughts:

Obviously, the reason for Jihad terrorism isn't because they hate our freedoms. Oppression is the way of life in the Middle East. There are MANY world events & guilty parties, mostly in the name of cheap oil, which have destabilized the region & turned the average lives of Middle Easterners into crap.

However, this, in no way, excuses terrorism, nor justifies it's employment.

I think it's important to understand the mindset & motivation of those who seek to harm us. Just as there's value in reading Mein Kampf & learning about the lies told to German citizens & the national fervor which led to the Holocaust.

Please keep in mind that these hijackers were children at some point. I find it very interesting to consider what happened in their lives that made them hate us so much as to hop on some airplanes & crash them into skyscrapers. It's not because they're brown, it's not because they're Muslims, & it's not because they live in sand... It's because they felt oppressed & they came to see the WTC as a symbol of their oppression.

I, personally, do not see any value in remaining ignorant of the motivation behind detestable deeds. It helps us to better understand human nature & reaffirms the importance of being good international neighbors through diplomacy (not entangling alliances & war) & rendering real international aid when/where aid is really needed.

Based on the article, I do not believe they are trying to raise up the hijackers as either martyrs nor heroes. Knowledge is power.

 

[printcraft]

.........
......
Obviously, the reason for Jihad terrorism isn't because they hate our freedoms. Oppression is the way of life in the Middle East. There are MANY world events & guilty parties, mostly in the name of cheap oil, which have destabilized the region & turned the average lives of Middle Easterners into crap.

................

Please keep in mind that these hijackers were children at some point. I find it very interesting to consider what happened in their lives that made them hate us so much as to hop on some airplanes & crash them into skyscrapers. It's not because they're brown, it's not because they're Muslims, & it's not because they live in sand... It's because they felt oppressed & they came to see the WTC as a symbol of their oppression.

.................

Correct to a point. But only a fine point.

from ME in the other thread ......

They live in an OPPRESSIVE regime. Their despotic rulers
and mullahs keep them down under control and then blame US (the west) for their problems
when their country is a stink hole so the little children have someone other
than the nutjobs running 99% of those countries to blame.

Where do the children learn this trash????? They are beat upon the head and shoulders from
birth forward that the west is the great satin. Who does that?? The motivation is put into them
by their "religious" leaders. Sorry but if the Baptists were telling their flock that "the east is evil
and the great satin and should be consumed in holy fire" then that should be condemned and stopped as well.
The idea that we are an oppressor was placed into each and every one of their heads by the mullahs, who
seek to control them. So the idea that they came up with the WTC as a symbol of their oppression on their
own is laughable.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

So the idea that they came up with the WTC as a symbol of their oppression on their
own is laughable.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt & assume that you didn't really read my post carefully.

I did not say they came up with it on their own. I said "they came to see the WTC as the symbol of their oppression". I agree that it was primarily external forces, primarily masked in religion, which led them to this belief.

Please do try harder to set emotion aside. It truly hinders beneficial discussion.

 

[rambone]

*chirp chirp*

 

[henktermaat]

Life is boring without emotions. We just aren't robots.

Perhaps I'll start another thread entitled:
9-11 museum to include hijackers perspective (BINARY DISCUSSION ONLY thread)

 

[shooter521]

Perhaps I'll start another thread entitled:
9-11 museum to include hijackers perspective (BINARY DISCUSSION ONLY thread)

011010!

 

[henktermaat]

110101000101001 !!!!

10100



smileys can say so much

 

[tyrajam]

I think it's important to understand the mindset & motivation of those who seek to harm us. Just as there's value in reading Mein Kampf & learning about the lies told to German citizens & the national fervor which led to the Holocaust.

I agree with you to a point-it is important to learn why something happened to prevent it from happening again. Absolutely. But there is a time and a place for everything. Mein Kampf should NOT be displayed in a Holocost museum, just as I believe the "hijackers perspective" should NOT be placed in a 9/11 museum.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

When an industrial accident occurs, we don't run around screaming that the machinery is possessed by 'evil'. We mourn the losses & investigate the causes. This helps us to avoid such occurrences in the future.

Yet, when someone commits a mass murder, we just denounce them as 'evil' & leave it at that. I find it much more helpful to gain understanding behind the person's motivations, in an effort to figure out what makes such people tic.

When someone FEELS backed into a corner by forces which they FEEL are beyond their control, they'll sometimes FEEL the need or justification to lash out. It's a good idea, as a society, to help our fellow man avoid such corners, not via taxes, but via charity & understanding.

When mechanical things cause destruction, it's not because the flying spaghetti monster made it happen. When people cause destruction, it's not because the flying spaghetti monster made them do it. There's always a reason...however small or disgusting it might be. A study of those causes DOES NOT necessarily justify the acts, but it helps us to understand how to better avoid such acts in the future.

Emotionally decrying the act 8 years later does not help us to become better people, a better society, or a better world. Learning from the act & understanding the unique causes does.

 

[bigus_D]

To ignore the motivations of the enemy is tantamount to sticking your head in the sand.

From the Art of War:
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a thousand battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.

 

[printcraft]

Life is boring without emotions. We just aren't robots.

Perhaps I'll start another thread entitled:
9-11 museum to include hijackers perspective (BINARY DISCUSSION ONLY thread)

True dat.

No emotions thread... you must be out yo vulcan mind!!!! Foo real!!

represent yo!!!!

 

[Joe Williams]

Including the hijacker's perspective is merely an attempt to justify their actions, and blame the US for the attacks. It's a typical viewpoint of American leftists, and many around the world who hate us. To preface your OP with saying you don't want to hear "it's because they hate our freedom" is simply saying you don't want to hear the truth about the motives behind our enemies' actions.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Including the hijacker's perspective is merely an attempt to justify their actions, and blame the US for the attacks. It's a typical viewpoint of American leftists, and many around the world who hate us. To preface your OP with saying you don't want to hear "it's because they hate our freedom" is simply saying you don't want to hear the truth about the motives behind our enemies' actions.

1. Please explain how presenting *facts* unfairly justifies their actions if their actions were unjust.
2. Please don't offer *truth* without *proof*.

 

[rambone]

Well, sorry I ticked you off with my chirping cricket, Paco. I'll prove my maturity to you by not giving you a negative rep back. For a guy who dismisses emotional responses, you reacted harshly to my harmless cricket.

Since the article described the place as a "memorial" in the article, I just didn't think the plight of the hijackers would or should be recognized, on the anniversary of their atrocities, in the town that was attacked the worst. You've seen the calendar today right? Happy National Service Day!

Most of the city knew one of the victims in some way, shape, or form. I interpreted the building to be a place of mourning to remember the 3,000 murdered. A memorial. A place for memories.

The lessons from Hitler, or the 9/11 hijackers, are analysis best left to books, not memorial sites of their countless victims. It is distasteful, and just isn't done. Unless you are at the Afghan Memorial for Fallen Heros in Kabul.

I'll go write some more chest-thumping posts now, as you know, my favorite.

 

[Boilers]

I equate someone that would desire/design/erect a memorial for this purpose, to a nazi sympathizer.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

For a guy who dismisses emotional responses, you reacted harshly to my harmless cricket.

The decision to give negative rep is not always emotional. I judged your useless post of a cricket to be an attempt at derailing a discussion which you are neither interested in nor in agreement with.

I chose to reward you with negative reputation for wasting thread-space & trying to derail a discussion you didn't like before it got started.

It's obvious that you're just seeking attention. I mean, look at the font size you use.

"What I say is more important than everyone else! That's why I use very large fonts!" -The spirit of Rambone

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I equate someone that would desire/design/erect a memorial for this purpose, to a nazi sympathizer.

I totally agree with you. However, it's called the National September 11 Memorial & Museum. The problem is that they're trying to combine:

Memorial: "a structure erected to commemorate persons or events"

Museum: "An institution which collects, conserves, researches, exhibits, and interprets objects of lasting interest or value for the purposes of study, education and enjoyment."

The other problem is that after 8 years, there still isn't a real, bonafide place of mourning for this event, so it seems that people want to water down the museum to only offering materials regarding the EFFECT of the events while totally ignoring the CAUSE.

 

[Jay]

wrong day for this

 

[femurphy77]

The decision to give negative rep is not always emotional. I judged your useless post of a cricket to be an attempt at derailing a discussion which you are neither interested in nor in agreement with.

I chose to reward you with negative reputation for wasting thread-space & trying to derail a discussion you didn't like before it got started.

It's obvious that you're just seeking attention. I mean, look at the font size you use.

"What I say is more important than everyone else! That's why I use very large fonts!" -The spirit of Rambone

Can't. . . . . . .help. . . . . .myself! Must. . .open mouth. . . . so I can .. . . . . .insert foot. So he doesn't agree and gets a neg rep?

 

[Fletch]

From the Art of War:
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a thousand battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.

From Ender's Game:
There is no teacher but the enemy.