922(r) compliance with imported pump shotgun?

[WabashMX5]

I just found a very good deal on an Interstate Arms (IAC) 982 shotgun -- a Norinco-made Rem 870 clone, with ghost-ring sights stock. It comes as a 5+1, but it's possible to get extension tubes.

Thing is, doesn't increasing its capacity implicate the same 922(r) parts-count garbage that AK builders deal with? ( I know by its terms, 922(r) applies to "any shotgun" that's imported.)

If an extended-capacity tube is enough to run into 922(r) problems, does anyone know how many US-made parts you have to put in to be legal? Or would it take enough parts that, by the time you've complied, you'd have been money ahead to buy the US-made Remmy in the first place?

Just looking for 922(r) advice, not to start a "Made in China" debate -- I have divided feelings about that issue (torn between a good tool to defend my family on a limited budget, versus everything else that "Made in China" entails). Heck, I'm not even positive I'll buy this thing -- just wanting to figure out what can legally be done with it if I do.

Thanks in advance.

 

[shooter521]

922(r) only applies to semi-autos.

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to--
(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

ETA - in before indykid mentions the slaughter of innocent babies.

 

[WabashMX5]

Are you sure? As I read that language, I think it applies to any semi-auto rifle, but any shotgun, period (i.e., without the "semi-auto" modifier):

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun . . .

If it said "any semi-auto rifle or shotgun," I'd definitely agree -- though your reading is the way courts have interpreted it, then groovy. (I'm sure in the real world, BATFE has better things to do than go looking for +2 tube extensions on a Chicom shotgun -- but I wouldn't bet anything I can't afford to lose, either....)

ETA - in before indykid mentions the slaughter of innocent babies.

Sounds interesting -- I'll stay tuned!

 

[indykid]

Thank you!!!!!

Yes, George Bush the First, in his tirade about evil looking weapons made the statement that the way a firearm looks will cause a person to become a criminal. By demonizing the weapon and not the person, Bush1 took it to an illogical extreem, which led to the MAK-90 and other AK variants with Bush-hole stocks, removed bayo lugs, unthreaded barrels, and the parts count.

With a threaded barrel, you are likely to ruin Algore's day because a dreaded flash hider on a post-Bush1 rifle with more than 10 imported parts can cause the sun to flare out, causing the coldest winter on record.

Adding a bayo lug to a semi-auto rifle with more than 10 imported parts can cause the killing of bus-stop loads of children.

Rifles imported after the Bush1 ban that have more than 10 imported parts have been known to go off on their own, away from human hands and kill hundreds of innocent babies.

Just ask George Bush the First. I remember watching his speech on "Evil Looking Weapons" and it brought me to tears. I couldn't believe what I was seeing and hearing. Jerk of the first order.


That's is where the baby killing thing comes from!

 

[WabashMX5]

LOL @ indykid.

For similar reasons, I'm grateful that 2A ensures that my right to keep and bear arms -- that have no more than a certain number of imported parts, whose barrels are over a certain minimum length, and do not fire more than one round per trigger pull -- shall not be infringed.

Constitutional affront aside, anyone know the 922(r) answer?

 

[sporter]

Send a letter to the BATFE and they could clarify it for you.

 

[emclean]

any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation

is a 7+1 or 8+1 shotgun pump shotgun prohibited from imporation?
if so then you would need to use the list of ATF parts, and see hownamy the shotgun has.

there are 20 "parts"
(1) Receiver
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstock
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

i would guess that a pupm gun has 12 of them (13 if bbl threaded for chokes). if so, then two would have to be replaced to be 922r complinet.

 

[WabashMX5]

Thanks for that parts-count analysis. I'm enough of a firearms noob in general (and as to shotguns especially) that it would've taken me forever to figure that out. The extension I'm looking at is US-made, and includes a Wolff follower, so that should make 2 U.S. parts right there. Swap stock/forearm, and sounds like it should all be fair game.

I've just been assuming that more than 5+1 on an imported shotgun runs afoul of the "Parts Count for Non-Sporting Firearms" Clause of the Second Amendment, since the imports I saw at a quick Google glance seem to be limited to that number.

OTOH, I haven't seen people talk about 922(r) with their Saiga 12s, if all they're doing is slapping in a 10- or 12-round magazine -- so maybe I'm worried about a non-issue. Still, if that's how little it'd take to be 922(r) compliant, I'll probably do it anyway, unless I can find a definitive answer about capacity.

Thanks again for the thoughtful response!

 

[shooter521]

runs afoul of the "Parts Count for Non-Sporting Firearms" Clause of the Second Amendment

You've been talking to indykid again, haven't you?

OTOH, I haven't seen people talk about 922(r) with their Saiga 12s, if all they're doing is slapping in a 10- or 12-round magazine

Saigas are a different ballgame. The US-made magazine provides (3) components toward 922(r) compliance. A stock Saiga shotgun can require as few as (4), depending on configuration, so a lot of guys just install a US made gas puck and call it good.

 

[WabashMX5]

Offhand, I can't find any U.S. Code section that specifically limits non-semi-auto shotties to five rounds, but judging by this link (Restricted Importation) it looks like the BATFE just plain says so -- presumably, under some obscure administrative regulation they promulgated somewhere in the CFR.

So if I add a tube extension, I'm upping the total parts count by one (as opposed to just replacing a part), and therefore still need two domestic parts for compliance? But a new follower and a new stock and/or forend would be enough to obey the BATFE "Law"(tm) Ordained from On High By Raw Executive Fiat?

 

[emclean]

one of the Secretarys (of State maybe, cant remember for sure) decides what is "sporting" and "un-sporting" so you wont find a definition in the CFR.

So if I add a tube extension, I'm upping the total parts count by one (as opposed to just replacing a part), and therefore still need two domestic parts for compliance? But a new follower and a new stock and/or forend would be enough to obey the BATFE "Law"(tm) Ordained from On High By Raw Executive Fiat?

that sounds right, you just need to keep the total number of foreign parts less than ten.

also if you act in good faith and are not doing something else illegal, you will probably be okay. i have never heard of a prosecution of a 922r violation.

 

[shooter521]

one of the Secretarys (of State maybe, cant remember for sure) decides what is "sporting" and "un-sporting" so you wont find a definition in the CFR.

Nominally, it has been the Secretary of Treasury. Now that BATF is under the Department of Justice, I'm not sure who it would be. Doesn't really matter, though; in reality the authority has always been delegated by the secretary to the head of the BATF.

 

[indykid]

Actually I believe it is the US Attorney General who decides what is sporting or non-sporting.

I truly hope that LBJ is rotting in the Nether-World for his sporting purpose given us by his unconstitutional 1968 Gun Control Act.

 

[emclean]

Nominally, it has been the Secretary of Treasury

i think you are correct.