9mm self defense ammo

[Birds Away]

I use Golden Saber bonded 147gr. I can find it at reasonable prices which allows me to shoot more of it than I would a higher priced option. It's been extremely reliable in my CZs and does pretty well in testing.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I recently picked up some pulled 147 gr. HST projectiles from Rocky Mountain Reloading to try out. I like the factory 147 gr., so I figured this would be a cheap way to get a little more practice in with them.

 

[GreyState]

I use Speer G2 147 gr and Federal HST both 124 and 147 gr loads. I test for accuracy, consistency, and penetration over a course of a couple hundred loads each. For penetration, I use Clear Ballistics 10% FBI Blocks and follow protocol. Here is a shot that I did while I was re-qualifying the Speer G2 after the initial batch over penetrated. New stuff performs perfectly ~ 15" of penetration @ 10 yards both naked and through barriers. The other round I use HST, is on the left in this image and was used during the test for comparison.

 

[Skullglide]

My carry load used to be the 9bp +p+. I got a great deal on 1000 Rds when a police department switched to 40. The were a great round, but I was more accurate and consistent with the 147.

 

[in625shooter]

Actually even with Grogan loosing his glasses one of his 9mm rounds hit Matix, struck an artery and he continued to fight. With that said I'm an HST guy.

True but like mentioned Murphy's Law. I observed a subject center punched with a 230 gr JHP 46 and not only did he live when I got there he was in cuffs and talking like we are typing.

Respectfully just because a round did good in testing doesn't make one who uses it the smartest one in the room. More about placement. Yes newer bonded does have more retention that being said if all the store has is Hydra Shocks you'll probably live through the night. ISP didn't have bad results.

 

[9mmfan]

My 642 carries Critical Defense short barrel stuff. Very accurate stuff. My 9mm carries Underwood 124 Gr bonded +p hollow points (basically Gold Dots).
My G20 the 180 Gr jacked hollow point +p. Also Underwood.

 

[9mmfan]

Double post.

 

[freekforge]

Ive carried federal HSTs in since i started carrying. i carry 147gr standard pressure HSTs both on duty and off in the g17 g19 g26 and g43. I put 200rds of HSTs and 300rds of FMJs through the gun before i carry it. I also carry hornadys in my 38 but other than that i only carry HSTs.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have been using Hornady Critical Defense for a long time. Recently I had an experience that led me to believe that particular 115 grain bullet had less than desirable penetration.

That's because they do.

It's a handgun caliber. Pick one that feeds reliably in your gun. Then practice shot placement. I personally tend to gravitate towards heavy for caliber weights in standard pressure

There's a bit more to it than that. Excellent shot placement can be ruined by insufficient penetration, bullets glancing off bone, etc. Some bullets are better than others, and then there's intermediate barriers (which can include forearms...) that really start to show the differences.

Standard pressure 147 HST's. Gold Dots are good too as are the Winchester Ranger. In 9mm, heavy for caliber and bonded are probably the most important next to feeding reliably. BBI has mentioned that here a few times which he quotes DocGKR. Read here>>> https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?99-Self-Defense-and-Duty-Loads-ballistics-info-by-DocGKR

Quoted from the article.

Yup. Pick something off Doc's list, call it a day. You're getting the results of professional testing with the resources and knowledge that offers. I still tend toward heavy for caliber and bonded (or otherwise retains nearly all weight, there's other successful methods to do this now).

I pretty much have switched over to Xtreme Defender. I think that hollow points will eventually go the way of the Dodo.

In the way that all metal projectiles will eventually, sure. As long as we're still using metal bullets, the HP is the *only* option that both offers sufficient penetration after common intermediate barriers AND doesn't over penetrate when no barriers are present while maximizing tissue crush. The Lehigh Defender's claim of using hydraulic pressure to increase the permanent wound cavity is complete BS. Their marketing exploits the fact few understand the difference between the stretch cavity in gel vs permanent wound channel in living flesh.

Critical Duty vs. Critical Defense? Per Hornady, Critical Duty is intended for longer barrel "full size" handguns while Critical Defense is intended for smaller, shorter barreled guns.

Critical Defense is also not "barrier blind", whereas Critical Duty is. The short barrel/long barrel is marketing. The Defense is a lower recoil option, which is why they market it as better for smaller (generally lighter) guns. Not really for performance, but for ease/comfort of shooting.

 

[BE Mike]

The Lehigh Defender's claim of using hydraulic pressure to increase the permanent wound cavity is complete BS. Their marketing exploits the fact few understand the difference between the stretch cavity in gel vs permanent wound channel in living flesh.

Maybe you could give us a link to show the test results of the Lehigh Defender bullet in living flesh.

 

[BE Mike]

Penetration of a projectile is important to me, especially when we are talking about self defense. Unless I'm confronted by someone in a swim suit, seeing what a bullet does after passing through layers of clothing is important also. Seeing what a bullet does after hitting bone is also important. Over penetration of a projectile is NOT desirable. My limited experience is on hunting deer with a .357 magnum. I found that soft point projectiles traveling at high speeds did a good job. I also found that a hollow point, traveling at high speed, when it hit bone, stopped. I like the Lehigh Xtreme Defender projectiles, because they pass through barriers, and penetrate, yet stop without over penetration, like round nose full metal jacketed bullets tend to do. Of course, this doesn't discount the fact that pistol ammo, in general, has a less than stellar reputation for stopping power. Marksmanship trumps all of this, of course.

 

[cosermann]

... Yup. Pick something off Doc's list, call it a day. You're getting the results of professional testing with the resources and knowledge that offers. I still tend toward heavy for caliber and bonded (or otherwise retains nearly all weight, there's other successful methods to do this now). ...

Yep. - https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Maybe you could give us a link to show the test results of the Lehigh Defender bullet in living flesh.

Not every piece of info is on the web, and I'm quite satisfied with how I know what I know. I'd just say take a look at my track record of putting info out and what's turned out to be true or false when it comes to this sort of thing and believe me or don't.

I also found that a hollow point, traveling at high speed, when it hit bone, stopped.

You can overdrive a HP, effectively applying the brakes too early as they open to fast. 10mm rounds see this a lot, as they are recycling their proven and effective .40 bullet but people want big numbers for fps and muzzle energy to be impressed by marketing, so niche makers overdrive the bullet which actually reduces effectiveness. Then, of corse, not all are HP created equal. Some shed jackets, break up too early, etc. Which is why I'd stick to DocGKR's list. You may not be getting the full documentation, as most of that is shielded by an NDA and is paid for by someone who got the full work up, but you're getting the take away.

I like the Lehigh Xtreme Defender projectiles, because they pass through barriers, and penetrate, yet stop without over penetration, like round nose full metal jacketed bullets tend to do

How is it different from ball? Keeping in mind the bullet spins at the same rate as your barrel twist rate, so you might get one to two full rotations through a body depending on how thick the guy is and what pistol you're using (9mm tends to be 1 in 10" to 1 in 18") what mechanism is the defender using to not slow through barriers but slow in meat? The sole advantage the defender might have is it should skip off bone less easy than same weigh RN, but not as well as a large cavity HP or wadcutter.

 

[BE Mike]

Not every piece of info is on the web, and I'm quite satisfied with how I know what I know. I'd just say take a look at my track record of putting info out and what's turned out to be true or false when it comes to this sort of thing and believe me or don't.



You can overdrive a HP, effectively applying the brakes too early as they open to fast. 10mm rounds see this a lot, as they are recycling their proven and effective .40 bullet but people want big numbers for fps and muzzle energy to be impressed by marketing, so niche makers overdrive the bullet which actually reduces effectiveness. Then, of corse, not all are HP created equal. Some shed jackets, break up too early, etc. Which is why I'd stick to DocGKR's list. You may not be getting the full documentation, as most of that is shielded by an NDA and is paid for by someone who got the full work up, but you're getting the take away.



How is it different from ball? Keeping in mind the bullet spins at the same rate as your barrel twist rate, so you might get one to two full rotations through a body depending on how thick the guy is and what pistol you're using (9mm tends to be 1 in 10" to 1 in 18") what mechanism is the defender using to not slow through barriers but slow in meat? The sole advantage the defender might have is it should skip off bone less easy than same weigh RN, but not as well as a large cavity HP or wadcutter.

Ball tends to over penetrate, compared to the Xtreme Defender bullet when compared side be side.

 

[edporch]

I use Underwood ammo for self defense.

 

[churchmouse]

I use Golden Saber bonded 147gr. I can find it at reasonable prices which allows me to shoot more of it than I would a higher priced option. It's been extremely reliable in my CZs and does pretty well in testing.

:thumbsup. HD mags loaded with this as well.

 

[tcecil88]

Another vote for Federal 147 gr. HST +P. Great ballistics, good accuracy, reliable feeding and I can get boxes of 50 for less than $40. You can load a couple mags and still have some ammo for practice.

 

[cosermann]

I always scratch my head when folks say they use expensive boutique ammo rather than less expensive, proven alternatives with a substantial body of performance data behind them (i.e. HST, Gold Dot, Ranger, etc.)

 

[BE Mike]

I always scratch my head when folks say they use expensive boutique ammo rather than less expensive, proven alternatives with a substantial body of performance data behind them (i.e. HST, Gold Dot, Ranger, etc.)

bou·tique
bo͞oˈtēk/
noun
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• 1.
  a small store selling fashionable clothes or accessories.
  
  
  
  
  
• 2.
  a business that serves a sophisticated or specialized clientele, I hope that this doesn't mean you are unsophisticated.
  
  
  
  

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[edporch]

I always scratch my head when folks say they use expensive boutique ammo rather than less expensive, proven alternatives with a substantial body of performance data behind them (i.e. HST, Gold Dot, Ranger, etc.)

I use Underwood JUST for carry, especially in 10mm and 357 Sig, because they offer significantly higher muzzle velocity.
I buy lower cost ammo for practice and plinking.
Examples:
10mm 155 grain bonded jacketed hollow point
Muzzle Velocity:1500 fps
Muzzle Energy: 774 ft. lbs

367 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point
Muzzle Velocity: 1475 fps
Muzzle Energy: 604 ft. lbs.