9mm vs. 45acp

[marshallartist]

Comparing calibers is splitting hairs. Shooting in self defense is just like real estate - location, location, location.

 

[kwatters]

Comparing calibers is splitting hairs. Shooting in self defense is just like real estate - location, location, location.

Well put

 

[popeye]

Taurus is introducing the "Supreme Judge" in 20mm this spring.

 

[infiremedic07]

I can understand the objections of the military when it came to the "stopping power" of the military since they are prohibited from using hollow points by the Geneva Conv. That being said if the 9mm hollow point mushrooms out I would suspect that it does a pretty decent job of transferring the kinetic energy to the BG.

 

[popeye]

The phrase "stop or I'll shoot" is a pretty good manstopper

 

[the1kidd03]

Here we go again.

if it's a weapon you plan to put your life on, then you need to be procient with it. That means you're going to need to practice a LOT to first, get proficient, then maintain it. It's much more affordable to pay for 9mm than .45

 

[marshallartist]

Taurus is introducing the "Supreme Judge" in 20mm this spring.

I hear there'll be a Supreme Court Judge too. It'll come in a "Conservative" version in 38 mm and a "Liberal" version that makes a lot of noise but only emits hot air.

 

[gregkl]

Here we go again.

if it's a weapon you plan to put your life on, then you need to be procient with it. That means you're going to need to practice a LOT to first, get proficient, then maintain it. It's much more affordable to pay for 9mm than .45

All this talk has me thinking now whether I should buy a .45 or maybe consider the 9mm for ammo cost savings. I want a 1911. How much more is .45acp than 9mm?

 

[wxchick.h3]

I loved the 1911 that I shot I was worried when I first tried it because the 40 that I shot was a lighter gun and it had more recoil. I think for carry though I will get a 9 or something.

 

[Mike.B]

Through Cabela Winchester USA Handgun Ammunition – Per 50

9 mm 115 Grain $14.99 30cents a round
.45 Auto 230 Grain $23.99 48cents a round

 

[Shift Zombie]

After watching countless videos of ammunition vs. denim/ballistic gel I can say that with a high quality SD round penetration is, essentially equal. The top contenders are all rocking 14-16" penetration. Penetration is the biggest factor in brining about physiological shock. Diameter will help in this, sure, but not as much as consistent penetration and shot placement. 147 grain PDX1 =14" penetration and .54 diameter. It's easy shooting for 9mm and gets solid pen. Horandy Critical Duty 135 grain +p nets you 16" pen with .5 diameter. Any .45 will give you 14" pen and .75-.85 diameter. Or, at least, not poorly made JHP. Most .40 will give you 14" pen and .7-.75 diameter. Okay. . .9mm is the least expensive, highest capacity, most readily available, and lowest on recoil for follow up shots. Mmmm. . . I'll go with any of the above that I was comfortable shooting and feeds reliably. The end. That's it's. If you shoot someone 2-3 times they're going down as long as they not hopped up on super drugs or wearing body armor, as long as you you choose good ammo.

 

[IndyGunner]

The 40 I've shot was a bit snappy for me even more so than a 4in 357 revolver.

really...?!? What revolver were you shooting?

 

[cundiff5535]

Just a few items:

1. There is no such thing as "stopping power" in handguns. It is a myth. Additionally, handguns are inherently poor manstoppers from a physiological perspective.
2. Bullet terminal performance and shop placement are independent. Bullet performance is a technology issue; while shot placement is a training issue. Neither affects the other.
3. When all things are considered--wound profiles, muzzle blast, recoil, follow-up shot speed, magazine capacity, ammunition cost--there isn't a hair's difference among the 9, .40, and .45, assuming top-performing ammunition meeting all FBI terminal ballistic protocols.

Personal preference is a key factor.

What he said is exactly what I was thinking... Well said my friend!

 

[thoroughbred rebel]

I'll pay the extra money for the 45 acp ammo I shoot my 1911 more consistently shooting a 2 inch spread at 25 yards using the fancy 15 round clip just as fast as I can pull that trigger. 45 period point blank. It's like getting ran over if you were tryin to run over somebody would you use a prius or a semi? Seems pretty simple 45 for the win its tested and tried. The 9 failed in law enforcement that's why most cops carry a larger caliber.

 

[mrp010]

This debate can go on forever. Perhaps more important then the caliber when it comes to 9mm vs .40 vs .45 is the bullet selection itself. I'm talking self defense JHP.

Some bullets of all these calibers just do not perform well and fail to expand as adverstised. Some fail to expand after passing through simple clothing.

I have done a fair amount of online research and imo your best performers in any of these calibers is going to be Ranger T and Federal HST. There are many videos on youtube, some of which are done very well, to confirm expansion.

I have heard over 80% of people shot with handguns survive. I have taken care of gun shot victims in the operating room and only lost one patient. A 3 year old girl shot by a slightly older brother with a .22. The bullet hit her abdominal aorta and once we opened her up she died quickly.

Shot placement is the end all be all of this. But if I had to take one HP in the exact same area in the chest I would prefer .22 over .38 over 9mm over .45 over .50 from a handgun. The amount of force and damage just goes up with size.

IMO anything .38 and up is an effective self defense round, but it has to be on you and you have to hit. If you can't with 8 rounds of .45 maybe you should carry a 9mm and get twice as many tries. On the other hand maybe not carry at all??

 

[VN Vet]

I do both. 9mm in the summer. .45 cal in the winter. Why? Heck, I think it has something to do with the amount of clothing people wear in each season. Since I've never had to kill anyone since Nam, I can't prove or disprove the clothing assumption.

I guess for me, the bottom line is that is what I was taught; a product of my environment.

Since most encounters occure within twenty five feet, I always go for a head shot where even the mighty .22 cal can get the job done. Generally speaking, I don't practice outside of 15 yards with a hand gun.

Shooting in general is mostly a psychological function. Your mind will do more to keeping you out of trouble or getting you out of trouble that all the muscles and kung fu you can do.

Carry what you are comfortable with and good with. All else is mind power.

Vv

 

[redneckmedic]

I'll pay the extra money for the 45 acp ammo I shoot my 1911 more consistently shooting a 2 inch spread at 25 yards using the fancy 15 round clip just as fast as I can pull that trigger. 45 period point blank. It's like getting ran over if you were tryin to run over somebody would you use a prius or a semi? Seems pretty simple 45 for the win its tested and tried. The 9 failed in law enforcement that's why most cops carry a larger caliber.

I've never read a post with more un-facted opinion and baloney in all my forum time. Even basic physics says your full of false assumptions.

Kinetic energy = mass x speed squared / by 2

SPEED SQUARED is the damage accelerator.

And they're called mags not clips, the 1911 isn't a garand.

Welcome to INGO

 

[VN Vet]

The phrase "stop or I'll shoot" is a pretty good manstopper

I would only make one suggestion. I would say it this way:

Stop! Stop or I WILL shoot you! No contractions. Say each word and louder say the words shoot you. Say it twice.

Hopefully they will get the message. Shoot if they have not stopped after the second time. Do not hesitate. My Grandpa, a WWI Combat Veteran, told me if you hesitate one moment, you are the one that is dead.

After the shooting, call 911 and make the report. Stay untill the police comes and tells you you can leave. Always ID yourself as the 911 caller. Obey the l police commands. They have a job to do after a shooting. Let them do it.

Enough said,
Vv

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I wish I had a dollar for every caliber debate. First off, controllability, reliability, and accuracy are the most key elements when deciding on a pistol and caliber. You can carry the biggest damn round you can find. Yet, if you can not control it, shoot it accurately, or it's not reliable. Then you have yourself a nice paper weight. The whole .45 is better then 9mm is BS, period. People have died from gunshot wounds from a .22, but survived gunshot wounds from a .45, and vise versa. With todays technology, almost all modern SD ammunition will penetrate the minimum depth according to the FBI standard of 12". Other things to consider. A lighter bullet traveling at a higher speed will mushroom sooner than a heavier bullet, but will penetrate slightly less. That's because of having less mass. A 147 grain 9mm bullet will penetrate just as deep as a 230 grain .45 bullet. The difference being permanent and temporary wound cavity. Which by todays standard, really does not mean much. We are not talking about shotgun slugs or high powered rifle rounds. Pistols are not the best SD choice. However, are you going to carry a shotgun or rifle in a holster? Or how about in your pocket? Nope, I did not think so. Find a caliber and pistol that you can fire with confidence, and practice, practice, practice. That will get you much further then saying look, my bullet is bigger than yours.

 

[JetGirl]

I prefer less recoil and since from the same size/weight frame, a 9mm that leaves the bore much faster creates a MUCH snappier recoil and more muzzle flip than a slower moving .45acp, I chose .45 as my SD caliber. It's more of a pleasure to plink with for extended periods of time, too.
YMMV