9mm vs. 45acp

[XDLover]

"stopping power" = when any normal person stops after hearing the sound of -pop=pop=pop-. That is "stopping power".

 

[WestSider]

Smart people get a 9mm.

 

[redneckmedic]

I've been preaching the myth behind stopping power for years... I've treated folks shot by all the popular calibers in all parts of the body, and many different body types. I've never seen one caliber out perform another in the handgun class anyhow. Ive been doing the gutter surgeon thing for just a bit more than 10 yeas, but I don't expect my experience with gsw's to change much.

Buy what you like... what your comfortable with.

 

[cwillour]

Buy what you shoot well, but don't let the .40 steer you away from the .45 -- they are totally different rounds. The .40 fires a medium weight (typically 150-180gr) bullet at a relatively high velocity, while the .45 fires a notably heavier bullet (typically 185-230gr) bullet at subsonic velocities. The net result is that the "fast action" of the 40 tends to draw complaints of snapping wrists back while the "slow" .45 is often described as having a smooth push in full-size autos.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

You bias and prejudice is hangin' out all over the place:

If "stopping power" does not exist, then how can any set of handguns be "inherently poor" or "inherently good" in any perspective? Choose the words of your argument so as to avoid slip-ups like that. But it is agreed: shoot best, shoot accurately, shoot til incapacitation of threat. Any bullet "can" kill you, and SOME bullets can "stop" you. Maybe it's just that damned pain it gave the BG. EBG

Just a few items:

1. There is no such thing as "stopping power" in handguns. It is a myth. Additionally, handguns are inherently poor manstoppers from a physiological perspective.

Personal preference is a key factor.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

I want one!! Does it kick much??

<snip>with only my BUGs (380 or 38spl) I dont worry so much about the ability of the round to blow base ball sized holes through a bag guy as I do my shot placement. I think shooting a BG in the eye with a bb gun would be more effective than a load of buckshot to the pinky.

Where in the transit path of your BUGs in "38" cal. does this 3⅝" hole open up? Entrance? Temporary wound-cavity? Exit hole? Got any pics? What ammo are you using: hand-loads? Also, have you ever been shot by "a load of buckshot" (.410 up to 12ga.) ANYWHERE in your body? I disagree with your premise. But placement IS the correct answer. EBG

 

[SSGSAD]

If it is stopping power you are looking for, might I suggest the M1 in 30-06?

It stops stuff!

OR, an M1-A, in .308... or a .458 SOCOM ?????

 

[cosermann]

One can do recoil calculations, but perceived recoil is a bit subjective and is related to the guns ergonomics as well as action and weight.

FWIW, I prefer the recoil impulse of the .45 ACP over the 9mm, like in say a Glock 30 vs. a Glock 19 (pistols of nearly identical size). However, the difference is nothing significant enough to make me choose one over the other based on recoil alone.

With respect to effectiveness, round for round with best modern loads, there's little difference between the two. However, 9mm is significantly less expensive to shoot and handguns of similar size carry more rounds.

 

[davedolli]

Either caliber will do the job, pick a handgun that fits you best and practice, practice, practice. This subject has been beat to death for years.

Dave

 

[Classic]

I have always been a loyal 45 fan but when most 45 ammo became scarce and 9 was in abundant supply I bought my first 9. It makes a great range gun and not much more expensive than a 22. Recoil is more pronounced for some in a 45 vs. 9mm given similar weight handguns but if my life is going to depend on "stopping the fight" I want the 45. As to the 40, as much as I love shooing and reloading many different calibers I just don't like the noise and concussion a 40 makes so I have no interest in it.

 

[kwatters]

Just a few items:

1. There is no such thing as "stopping power" in handguns. It is a myth. Additionally, handguns are inherently poor manstoppers from a physiological perspective.
2. Bullet terminal performance and shop placement are independent. Bullet performance is a technology issue; while shot placement is a training issue. Neither affects the other.
3. When all things are considered--wound profiles, muzzle blast, recoil, follow-up shot speed, magazine capacity, ammunition cost--there isn't a hair's difference among the 9, .40, and .45, assuming top-performing ammunition meeting all FBI terminal ballistic protocols.

Personal preference is a key factor.

STOP that! logic and facts are not allowed in the caliber debates.

 

[popeye]

Horse Cavalry was still a viable option in the military when a replacement for the .38 was tested for the U.S. Army. One of the specs for the firearms tested was "the ability to founder a horse". The fact is that .45 ACP is an effective man stopper. The 9mm tends to overpenetrate, and pass thru.

 

[tdoom15]

I'm not one to meddle with the "stopping power" term, use whatever method you like to describe it, but know how you are using it. The term is pretty much useless when comparing 9mm vs .40 vs 45acp, as the performance of all 3 are pretty darn close when talking one shot to the body. There is maybe a .1" difference at full expansion between 9mm and 45...could that .1" make a difference, sure...but very rarely.

To understand this (which most people clearly do not), you have to understand how a handgun caliber bullet effects the human body in order to cause it cease what it is doing. You can do this by one of 3 ways:

Destroying the central nervous system (brain/spine)
Causing enough blood loss to literally make the body shut down
Phsycholigical - realize you are shot and then decide to go down

The temporary wound cavity in ballistic gel caused by a hand gun bullet is next to meaningless...most people will look at the gel profile and see the large wound profile and automatically assume that HAS to be the better choice. In pistol caliber velocities, this is a non issue. Penetration and expansion is what matters.

IMO, 9mm has the advantage for civilians when you start factoring in follow up shots, cost to practice, mag capacity, etc...My opinion may change for LEO's who deal more with intermediate barriers and get free ammo.

 

[Mike.B]

My
I can fire a 9mm more quickly and more accurately than a .45. Given that I don't think a single round is going to take someone down if they are determined to kill me, I'll take the volume approach.

 

[wizard_of_ahs]

Well, since the OP stated he knows about stopping power I would say shoot the .45 with the "judge" and don't worry about it (there is almost NO recoil !!)

 

[cosermann]

Bullets of substantially similar construction, of similar sectional densities, launched at similar velocities, will penetrate to similar depths (apples to apples comparison). It's simple physics.

The pic posted earlier (post #29) demonstrates this with the current crop of modern hollow points.

With respect to FMJ, here are a couple pics of penetration performance of 124 gr and 230 gr ball loads (147 gr 9mm would be a better comparison, but this was as close as I could quickly find).

Again, I don't see a huge difference here in terms of penetration (only about a 5cm or 2").

 

[kolob10]

If you gotta make a hole, then make a big one. The 45 is a *****cat on the shooters end. Practice and your learn to love the gentle push of the 45. John Browning got it right.

 

[kwatters]

Seems we have this caliber debate every couple of weeks.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/205682-pistols_suck_get_over_it.html

FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com

same old facts.

 

[Mr. FiveseveN]

Someone is trying to start a fight... That being said I vote 9mm.

 

[netsecurity]

If you gotta make a hole, then make a big one. The 45 is a *****cat on the shooters end. Practice and your learn to love the gentle push of the 45. John Browning got it right.

The 45cal may be a great round, but a 9mm is more than enough to kill a man of any size. The size of the hole is not as important as where the hole is punched! Additionaly, I can carry double the ammo in 9mm, so I can either double tap the baddie (and I guarantee that two 9mm holes will do more damage than one 45cal hole), or I shot shoot twice as many baddies (or provide additional cover fire), which may be a necessity.