A better Hydra-Shok?

[t-squared]

Found this in my inbox today. Federal has modified their Hydra-Shok bullet in .380 Auto and 38 Special +P to have better penetration over the old design.

Hydra-Shok Deep

 

[flatlander]

Why not just go with HST's?

 

[Ziggidy]

New and improved = new sales

Marketing to the "oh, I gotta have it" crowd.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Penetration was never the problem with old school HS. Reliable expansion was. They had the tendency to not peel back significantly in lower velocity cartridges, including .45 Auto, in many situations.

 

[bwframe]

Penetration was never the problem with old school HS. Reliable expansion was. They had the tendency to not peel back significantly in lower velocity cartridges, including .45 Auto, in many situations.

I think I'm done buying anything with the Federal name on it, for the present anyway. I don't care for their new offerings at a time when I believe their concentration should be getting reasonable priced and volume of ammo/components to their customers.

When I run out of 147gr HST's, what would be your recommendation for an alternative brand of self defense ammo?


.

 

[Mgderf]

I think I'm done buying anything with the Federal name on it, for the present anyway. I don't care for their new offerings at a time when I believe their concentration should be getting reasonable priced and volume of ammo/components to their customers.

When I run out of 147gr HST's, what would be your recommendation for an alternative brand of self defense ammo?


.

Wad cutters

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I think I'm done buying anything with the Federal name on it, for the present anyway. I don't care for their new offerings at a time when I believe their concentration should be getting reasonable priced and volume of ammo/components to their customers.

When I run out of 147gr HST's, what would be your recommendation for an alternative brand of self defense ammo?


.

If you want to stick with 147gr, Gold Dots are a very solid competitor and frankly I'd have a tough time arguing against them as a first choice for anyone, although I'd be comfortable with many others. The most current offering is the G2, although older Gold Dots are still a good option as well. G2s compared to older single cannelure HSTs *tend* to penetrate a bit more and expand a bit less, and *tend* to do better in auto glass testing, which correlates well with bone strikes. I'd have no concerns carrying either generation of Gold Dot but would lean toward G2s if available. Speer quality control has historically been very good as well.

Winchester's Ranger lineup is a strong competitor as well. Note there is a bonded and a non-bonded option. Bonded is just sold as Ranger Bonded. It passes the entirety of the FBI testing protocol, and is pretty neck-and-neck with G2 in terms of penetration and expansion. Either can edge the other depending on which test, but you're down to hair splitting at that point (perhaps literal, depending on shot placement!). Ranger-T is the non-bonded, and it expands more but penetrates less. I don't know if it passed the FBI protocols or not.

If you're not married to 147gr and don't mind +P, there are more options but there's a lot of good choices on the market now for 9mm.

 

[Dean C.]

^^^

Speer and Federal are owned by the same company , but agreed on Gold Dots being GTG though honestly I never really see G2 on the shelves

 

[Leadeye]

When you guys say old Hydra Shock I think of these from the 80s, sounds like there a gap in development that I missed.

They were popular around the same time as the Speer flying ashtrays,

 

[cosermann]

^^^

Speer and Federal are owned by the same company . . .

Right, both are owned by Vista Outdoor. As far as I know, all the major/large U.S. ammo companies (small mfgs excluded) are owned either by Vista Outdoor or Olin Corporation.

The Great American Ammunition Conspiracy

Two companies are at the root of the current shortage.

prospect.org

 

[bwframe]

If you want to stick with 147gr, Gold Dots are a very solid competitor and frankly I'd have a tough time arguing against them as a first choice for anyone, although I'd be comfortable with many others. The most current offering is the G2, although older Gold Dots are still a good option as well. G2s compared to older single cannelure HSTs *tend* to penetrate a bit more and expand a bit less, and *tend* to do better in auto glass testing, which correlates well with bone strikes. I'd have no concerns carrying either generation of Gold Dot but would lean toward G2s if available. Speer quality control has historically been very good as well.

Winchester's Ranger lineup is a strong competitor as well. Note there is a bonded and a non-bonded option. Bonded is just sold as Ranger Bonded. It passes the entirety of the FBI testing protocol, and is pretty neck-and-neck with G2 in terms of penetration and expansion. Either can edge the other depending on which test, but you're down to hair splitting at that point (perhaps literal, depending on shot placement!). Ranger-T is the non-bonded, and it expands more but penetrates less. I don't know if it passed the FBI protocols or not.

If you're not married to 147gr and don't mind +P, there are more options but there's a lot of good choices on the market now for 9mm.

Thank you! Knew you'd have solid advise on this.

Years back, when I settled on 147gr HST's, +P in that Federal loading tested very similar in performance to the standard loading. The only thing added by +P on 147Gr Federal HST's was recoil, (and the "more powerful" +P advertising.) You are saying that other brand's loadings in 147gr might not necessarily be similar to this? Gold Dots for example?

I'm not opposed to trying lighter bullets, but have always shot 147's. I was under the impression that heavy for caliber was the way to go in 9mm self defense? That has always dovetailed with building ammo for practice/competition in 147gr that were soft and fast shooting. My practice and SD loads have been hard to tell the difference in recoil and accuracy.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Thank you! Knew you'd have solid advise on this.

Years back, when I settled on 147gr HST's, +P in that Federal loading tested very similar in performance to the standard loading. The only thing added by +P on 147Gr Federal HST's was recoil, (and the "more powerful" +P advertising.) You are saying that other brand's loadings in 147gr might not necessarily be similar to this? Gold Dots for example?

I'm not opposed to trying lighter bullets, but have always shot 147's. I was under the impression that heavy for caliber was the way to go in 9mm self defense? That has always dovetailed with building ammo for practice/competition in 147gr that were soft and fast shooting. My practice and SD loads have been hard to tell the difference in recoil and accuracy.

No problem. Just don't overthink it, any of the options are good options.

HST +P was *maybe* 50fps difference and lot-to-lot variance could eat into that. It did not equate to better outcome, it was a marketing option mostly.

There's no real reason to drive 147gr at +P pressure, and remember that all of these are 'tuned' for roughly the same outcome. They want to pass the FBI protocols, which means penetrating enough but not too much, etc.

147gr vs 124gr +P is a 'no wrong answer' situation *assuming* your pistol likes them and puts them where the sights say they ought to go. There are a few standard pressure 124gr that are good options as well, but there's no compelling reason to swap if you are happy with the 147 gr, your pistol is happy with the 147gr, etc. I like 147gr, but work went to 124gr+P so that's what I carry. Samey-samey other than bullets for reloading are slightly cheaper. (For practice)

Unless there's a recent change, no 115gr passes the entirety of the FBI testing with a traditional lead/jacketed bullet. I don't know much about solid copper projectiles, other than the Barnes was the only 115gr that ever made DocGKR's list. Given availability, etc. I've never bothered to look into them and never saw one used in people shootings.

Speer lawman mimics Gold Dots very well for practice and is *very* consistent ammo. I've chrono'd factory lawman and gotten +/- 7 fps spreads over 10 shot strings.