A Heat Pump Thread

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Obviously there was something wrong with your heat pump. LP is not cheaper to operate then a properly operational heat pump.

That's what I thought you was saying before, "LP cost about the same as an air sourced HP". That is truely not the case.

It all depends on the relative costs of fuels and how mild (or not) the weather is. (It is hard to beat a heat pump in efficiency until the temperature goes below 34F). On REMC, at $.13/kwh, and at whatever LP was last year, and over the course of "an average" winter, it calculated out that LP was either slightly cheaper or about a wash (I don't really remember which..I just remember coming down on the geothermal side). Now, if you're paying "city" Duke rates, a heat pump would likely calculate out to be noticeably cheaper than LP. As I recall, REMC rates are about double what city folks pay. And your odds of having access to NG is probably greater in town--now it's a whole other set of variables.

 

[sig-guy]

it calculated out that LP was either slightly cheaper.

It does depend on location/local utility costs.
But, LP is not cheaper to operate then an air sourced HP (in Indiana), running on REMC electric.

 

[Marine1]

Ive had good luck with my york

 

[DocIndy]

American Standard owns Trane

And Ingersol Rand bought them both. York makes good equipment but you pay a premium for it. I have seen heat pumps last 15-20 years with regular service. The biggest component that is never stated... The system needs to be installed properly and sized properly. If you oversize a system too much, the system will just short cycle starting and stopping constantly and will not run long enough to dehumidify. If its undersized, it runs constantly and has a hard time maintaining temp. To size it properly, a load calculation needs to be ran. There are several factors that contribute to the load... Age and type of the structure, age and size of windows, type and amount of insulation....

There are Jana-junk systems 20 + years old that were installed properly and are still running fine. I'm not a Janatrol an either.

 

[churchmouse]

And Ingersol Rand bought them both. York makes good equipment but you pay a premium for it. I have seen heat pumps last 15-20 years with regular service. The biggest component that is never stated... The system needs to be installed properly and sized properly. If you oversize a system too much, the system will just short cycle starting and stopping constantly and will not run long enough to dehumidify. If its undersized, it runs constantly and has a hard time maintaining temp. To size it properly, a load calculation needs to be ran. There are several factors that contribute to the load... Age and type of the structure, age and size of windows, type and amount of insulation....

There are Jana-junk systems 20 + years old that were installed properly and are still running fine. I'm not a Janatrol an either.

The units made 20 years ago are a lot tougher than what we get out of the box today even though they offer a 10 year warr. on a lot of them.
I replaced a 21 year old Janatrol on my house (that daughter now lives in) last summer. It was then put into another location for an elderly person on a fixed income. She has no money for such things so we did it "Pro-Bono" so to speak. It ran through the 100 plus deg. summer last year and is still running today (knock on wood) as we kept it clean and charged it by super heat and sub cooling. I rarely see this done these days.

Heat pumps are critical to duct sizing and unit sizing. Air flow is all important.
I try and stay away from H/P's as many houses are short on return and not properly insulated for them.

 

[Harleyrider_50]

And Ingersol Rand bought them both. York makes good equipment but you pay a premium for it. I have seen heat pumps last 15-20 years with regular service. The biggest component that is never stated... The system needs to be installed properly and sized properly. If you oversize a system too much, the system will just short cycle starting and stopping constantly and will not run long enough to dehumidify. If its undersized, it runs constantly and has a hard time maintaining temp. To size it properly, a load calculation needs to be ran. There are several factors that contribute to the load... Age and type of the structure, age and size of windows, type and amount of insulation....

There are Jana-junk systems 20 + years old that were installed properly and are still running fine. I'm not a Janatrol an either.

Got 1 here that jus' took a sh*t in May......Goodman POS ,builders obviously lowest of the line,bought the place new in '98. Motorstart capacitor went belly up 2nd year here......service dude says " Yeah.....prolly the cheap'st stuff on'a mkt..... Janitrol market'd......we call'em 'Junkitrols'.....if ya get 10 yrs out'a this system,count yer stars..." LOL......had new blower install'd in the airhandler back in '07.......compressor gone this time on heat pump.....

SO.......got'a decide whut next......just do the compressor(cheap'st fix) or......go with new HP.......dunno yet......

Regardless........ya'll might see damn nice bike in here for sale,LOL!..

 

[churchmouse]

Got 1 here that jus' took a sh*t in May......Goodman POS ,builders obviously lowest of the line,bought the place new in '98. Motorstart capacitor went belly up 2nd year here......service dude says " Yeah.....prolly the cheap'st stuff on'a mkt..... Janitrol market'd......we call'em 'Junkitrols'.....if ya get 10 yrs out'a this system,count yer stars..." LOL......had new blower install'd in the airhandler back in '07.......compressor gone this time on heat pump.....

SO.......got'a decide whut next......just do the compressor(cheap'st fix) or......go with new HP.......dunno yet......

Regardless........ya'll might see damn nice bike in here for sale,LOL!..

You can replace the entire condenser with a dry ship R-22 unit for just a bit more than R&R on the compressor only. You will get a 5 year warr. and a 13 seer unit. The 10 seer coil in the furnace will work but you will not get the full eff. and it will still de-humidify better than the failed condenser.

 

[DocIndy]

You can replace the entire condenser with a dry ship R-22 unit for just a bit more than R&R on the compressor only. You will get a 5 year warr. and a 13 seer unit. The 10 seer coil in the furnace will work but you will not get the full eff. and it will still de-humidify better than the failed condenser.

Dry unit is the way to go. Labor is about the same. Biggest cost other than the unit itself is R-22 to recharge the system with. There are a couple other refrigerants out there that can be used instead of R-22. Since the EPA is phasing it out.... It's price is worse than gold right now.

 

[churchmouse]

Dry unit is the way to go. Labor is about the same. Biggest cost other than the unit itself is R-22 to recharge the system with. There are a couple other refrigerants out there that can be used instead of R-22. Since the EPA is phasing it out.... It's price is worse than gold right now.

MO-99 will work as a drop in but there is dew point and glide to consider.

 

[DocIndy]

MO-99 will work as a drop in but there is dew point and glide to consider.

Typically it's 75% of the R-22 charge. Had to buy a 30 lb jug of 22 a couple weeks ago... And about had a stroke when they told me how much it was!

 

[churchmouse]

Typically it's 75% of the R-22 charge. Had to buy a 30 lb jug of 22 a couple weeks ago... And about had a stroke when they told me how much it was!

I sat on some (R-22) when I saw all this coming again...remember the R-12 deal years back but it is being used up. We are pushing up-grades (410) as they do work but man I hate to force folks into something when the existing equipment is viable you just can not buy the materials required.

 

[bobbittle]

Got 1 here that jus' took a sh*t in May......Goodman POS ,builders obviously lowest of the line,bought the place new in '98. Motorstart capacitor went belly up 2nd year here......service dude says " Yeah.....prolly the cheap'st stuff on'a mkt..... Janitrol market'd......we call'em 'Junkitrols'.....if ya get 10 yrs out'a this system,count yer stars..." LOL......had new blower install'd in the airhandler back in '07.......compressor gone this time on heat pump.....

SO.......got'a decide whut next......just do the compressor(cheap'st fix) or......go with new HP.......dunno yet......

Regardless........ya'll might see damn nice bike in here for sale,LOL!..

Grammar and spellchecker

It has to take at least twice as long to type all that out and the only purpose it serves is to make you look dumb.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I've also learned that our REMC will give a $200 rebate and the feds will give you a $300 tax credit if you buy a 15 SEER, 9 HSPF (IIRC) unit. The 30% tax credit is still there for geothermal units...might as well get some of your tax money back.

 

[sig-guy]

I sat on some (R-22) when I saw all this coming again...

Bingo...

 

[ghitch75]

people can say what they want about Goodman equipment but for the money there the best out there......i have hundreds of them out there with little or no call backs....most of the trouble with Goodman is they sell to everyone and most trouble is that it wasn't installed right in the first place......you can take a million dollar piece of equipment and install it wrong and it's not worth $.50.....ditch the HP and go gas and you'll be warm this winter.....

 

[sig-guy]

people can say what they want about Goodman equipment but for the money there the best out there......i have hundreds of them out there with little or no call backs....most of the trouble with Goodman is they sell to everyone and most trouble is that it wasn't installed right in the first place......you can take a million dollar piece of equipment and install it wrong and it's not worth $.50.....ditch the HP and go gas and you'll be warm this winter.....

I was in agreement, till I read the later part in bold...

 

[Cameramonkey]

I was in agreement, till I read the later part in bold...

Oh, you'll be warmer all right. Also more broke.

The only thing I miss about combustion based heat is the comfort. Nothing says good morning in the winter like standing on a hot floor register and soaking up the heat. Unless the emergency heat is on you dont get that with a HP.

But then I open my utility bills and think "is it REALLY that bad? If I want to bake I can always fire up the space heater for a few minutes. "

 

[remauto1187]

Obviously there was something wrong with your heat pump. LP is not cheaper to operate then a properly operational heat pump.

How do you figure? Once the air temp gets around 20 degrees there is simply not enough heat to pull out and heat your home. So then the system is running on electric backup heating elements which are usually at a minimum equivalent to running 3 electric clothes dryers at once while backup heat is on. Granted natural gas has been high and propane just isnt cheap but heat pumps were designed for THE SOUTH...NOT THE MIDWEST.

R410 vs R22 system is another can of worms. R410 is a HVAC companies wet dream for driving up the cost for maintenance.

My 95% Natural Gas fired furnace will heat my house faster and evenly over ANY heat pump system. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a heat pump dealer!

 

[remauto1187]

people can say what they want about Goodman equipment but for the money there the best out there......i have hundreds of them out there with little or no call backs....most of the trouble with Goodman is they sell to everyone and most trouble is that it wasn't installed right in the first place......you can take a million dollar piece of equipment and install it wrong and it's not worth $.50.....ditch the HP and go gas and you'll be warm this winter.....

I have a Goodman furnace and central air also. Furnace has been in service for 2.5yrs now and the central air went in service last summer. I installed them both. $850 delivered for the 95% furnace and $1075 delivered for the 3.5 ton condenser unit, i believe the evaporator coil was $250 delivered.

Decent units for the $$$

 

[Harleyrider_50]

Grammar and spellchecker

It has to take at least twice as long to type all that out and the only purpose it serves is to make you look dumb.

Talk 'at way dude.......don't read it......'bout's good'a advice I can tell ya.....I prolly ain't a heart surgeon.....or rocket/nuclear pro like yerself but......I git along jus'fine.....