a rant that will probably tick quite a few off regarding Military/LEOs

[BugI02]

I used to be a used car salesman. Never have figured out which direction I moved.

Lateral move?

 

[BugI02]

I love these threads. They bring all the ****waffles out of hiding.

Stroop has six letters

 

[BugI02]

With the alcoholism, hypertension, heart disease, depression and IBS that accompanies practicing law, I would think we would be respected more than we are.

Well, Shakespeare didn't do you any favors. Probably not the cause of modern problems, though. Most kids under 30 probably think he's a rapper or something

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Stroop has six letters

I love me some stroopwafel. Never had one until 2 or 3 years ago. I has a sad that they aren't on my diet. And **** only has 4 letters.

 

[ART338WM]

If anyone reading this think that the risks or downsides of jobs like roofing or commercial fishing even begin to approach those of serving in combat your ignorance defies the ability to be measured. I will not go into length giving examples but will say this. I work in a profession at my plant alone that since the mid 1930's has taken the lives of over 500 people and that is not counting outside contractors who's added numbers would without doubt put the numbers of killed at my mill alone at or above 700 and still this can not compare to the life in a combat zone.

I'm reading this thinking nothing but opinions expressed by arm chair quarter backs who've never had to look death in the face and seriously have to face their own mortality and weather or not they will be alive in the next few seconds if they do their job, and have to keep doing it time after time after time, and contrary to all other high risk civilian jobs like mine, they don not have the option of saying **** this **** I quit.

I can not believe I'm reading people even trying to compare commercial fishing risks to that of a Marine engaged in house to house fighting in Iraq, are you seriously thinking before you type? Save for LEO's no other civilian job I know of does the person encounter armed persons intent on doing them harm and even LEO's don't have to deal with anything more lethal than firearms, I hope I don't have to list the nearly endless weapons an American combat soldier must face to prove my point.

And remember thus statistics are 99% accurate and 1% true. I despise the use of what are in this case what I call blanket statistics to prove a point or win an argument. I don't know or could be wrong but are the deaths per 1000 of service personnel including all active personnel or adjusted to represent only actual front line combat troops?


I need someone to convince me that it's the same as a commercial fisherman choosing to fish in bad weather and a soldier going into combat against an enemy who will give them no quarter, and unlike the fisherman, roofer or logger can call it quits in middle of a day going bad. Am I the only one who sees this distinction of life as a logger VS that of a soldier or marine in combat?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Something has been swirling around in my grey matter for a while that has really started to irk me.

Why does the general society place such importance on military and LEOs? It is almost as if godhood status has been bestowed on people that have VOLUNTARILY chosen a dangerous profession. It is akin, IMO, to the idiotic idolatry of celebrities. Not any of the above mentioned professions are forced upon a single soul in the USA. We do not have conscription; have not had a draft since the early 1970s; do not force people into jobs that garner the spotlight. These jobs are CHOICES made at the individual level. Pure and simple.

Do not get me wrong. I appreciate most of what military and LEOs do for security purposes. I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited.

Your thoughts?

Most here are confident in their ability to protect themselves and their families. Many actually are capable in all but the most dire of situations.

"General society" is neither confident nor able to do the same. They are sheep, they know there are wolves out there, and they appreciate those who volunteer to place themselves between those wolves and utter strangers. Most of "general society" cannot comprehend why they would do so?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

LEOs don't have to deal with anything more dangerous than firearms? Tell that to the cop in Atlanta that Eric Robert Rudolph killed with a bomb, and the cops in Massachussetts that had IEDs thrown at them.

 

[BluedSteel]

I simply refuse to give them any more credit than "job well done" when it is merited. Your thoughts?[/QUOTE]

A job "well done" is when a carpenter builds a square wall, your car is actually clean and smudge free after a detailing; or your dentist manages to fill a cavity without hurting you or your wallet. You, gentle citizen, are living a life far too removed from that flavor of "work" being done to have an accurate perspective.

To paraphrase Mr Jules Winnfield from Pulp Fiction - 'No, it ain't in the same ball park, it ain't in the same league . . .it ain't even the same sport.'

 

[DasOmen]

7.3 percent of all living Americans have served in the military at some point in their lives. I can guarantee most didn't sign up for the pay I sure as hell didn't. 6 years into my military career E6, and my youngest sister was the assistant manager of a Taco bell and made more than I did monthly. Military and police officers choose to serve in these dangerous jobs because the rest won't.

 

[Kutnupe14]

7.3 percent of all living Americans have served in the military at some point in their lives. I can guarantee most didn't sign up for the pay I sure as hell didn't. 6 years into my military career E6, and my youngest sister was the assistant manager of a Taco bell and made more than I did monthly. Military and police officers choose to serve in these dangerous jobs because the rest won't.

Besides serving their country, people sign up for lots of reasons, and IMO a LOT sign up for the pay (it's a steady job), the college opportunities, the adventure (i.e. to get the hell out of their hometowns), and the prestige. None of those reasons are dishonorable.

 

[jamil]

Some thoughts expressed in this thread I’d like to address.

“Blind patriotism.” That seems like either an ignorant statement or a brash one. How do you know it’s blind? There’s nothing wrong with patriotism. Maybe people have that confused with nationalism. There’s nothing wrong with thinking your country is the best. It’s kinda subjective. I expect people from other countries think their country is the best. And those who don’t often immigrate to ours, or some other country they think is better than theirs. If you think other countries are better than this one—maybe you don’t like the bill of rights, or the fact that our constitution doesn’t mandate wealth redistribution—or that cronies run things, or whatever—maybe your lot would improve if you immigrated to one of those countries you like better.

All dangerous jobs deserve public veneration. No. It’s not the danger of the job that makes those workers valuable enough that people would want to give them more respect then, say, a lawyer. It’s the function they perform in conjunction with the fact that they put their lives on the line for the protection of the nation, or for enforcing the laws that keep us civil.

I think of Actaeon as a good example for what I’m saying because he does a dangerous job as a civilian and did a dangerous job in the Navy. He faces danger every day working at a steel mill. Doesn’t matter that the danger is environmental or people actively try to kill him with bullets or bombs. As dangerous as his job is, and as empathetic as I can be about imagining myself doing that job, as thankful as I am for having products made of steel, I just don’t feel as thankful for his service on that job as I do for his service on a nuclear sub. That nuclear sub deters attacks on our nation, and the risks he put himself through, regardless of why he did it, provide existential value that people should be thankful for.

Pretty much the same concept for police. Maybe you’re a security guard for a rapper, and it’s a really dangerous job because people want to kill him. You risk bullets flying every day. So? You’re not risking bullets in a way that affects me. Cops do it to enforce laws, and that does affect me. The courts have ruled the police don’t have a duty to protect citizens. But they do it. Individually, not all of them do. Some take up a position of safety when a shooter goes on A rampage, and some go in to face down the danger. Facing down danger to protect citizens is venerable.

 

[jamil]

Besides serving their country, people sign up for lots of reasons, and IMO a LOT sign up for the pay (it's a steady job), the college opportunities, the adventure (i.e. to get the hell out of their hometowns), and the prestige. None of those reasons are dishonorable.

When it comes downto it, it doesn’t matter why they chose the job, it matters when they still choose to do it while being in danger.

 

[Birds Away]

I served in the military for a very long time. I have never met anyone in any service who expected to be venerated or anything like that. Most simply wanted a fair shake. Retirees, like me, simply want what was promised in the original agreement. Unfortunately, Congress critters love to whittle that away.

 

[jamil]

I served in the military for a very long time. I have never met anyone in any service who expected to be venerated or anything like that. Most simply wanted a fair shake. Retirees, like me, simply want what was promised in the original agreement. Unfortunately, Congress critters love to whittle that away.

When my brother came back from Vietnam, he was screwed up as it was. Didn’t help that people treated him as if he killed babies when he got back. When he separated they told him not to wear his uniform home.

 

[Birds Away]

When my brother came back from Vietnam, he was screwed up as it was. Didn’t help that people treated him as if he killed babies when he got back. When he separated they told him not to wear his uniform home.

Yeah, that was a very bad time. It was only in the last years of my career that we weren't told to wear civilian clothes when going ashore in the US away from our homeport.

 

[BE Mike]

When my brother came back from Vietnam, he was screwed up as it was. Didn’t help that people treated him as if he killed babies when he got back. When he separated they told him not to wear his uniform home.

Nobody cares about vets, like other vets. Please thank your brother, for me, for his service to our country under difficult circumstances. He had the right to wear his uniform in public and be proud. The people who stripped that right from him should be ashamed.

 

[churchmouse]

Nobody cares about vets, like other vets. Please thank your brother, for me, for his service to our country under difficult circumstances. He had the right to wear his uniform in public and be proud. The people who stripped that right from him should be ashamed.

Those people are now running the show.

 

[actaeon277]

I almost didn't look at this thread, cause it puts me off my feed a bit.
But what the heck.

Instead, I am seriously blushing. Thanks Jamil.

As for the reason I did it, well the "steel beach" parties, of course.

 

[Shadow01]

If anyone reading this think that the risks or downsides of jobs like roofing or commercial fishing even begin to approach those of serving in combat your ignorance defies the ability to be measured. I will not go into length giving examples but will say this. I work in a profession at my plant alone that since the mid 1930's has taken the lives of over 500 people and that is not counting outside contractors who's added numbers would without doubt put the numbers of killed at my mill alone at or above 700 and still this can not compare to the life in a combat zone.

I'm reading this thinking nothing but opinions expressed by arm chair quarter backs who've never had to look death in the face and seriously have to face their own mortality and weather or not they will be alive in the next few seconds if they do their job, and have to keep doing it time after time after time, and contrary to all other high risk civilian jobs like mine, they don not have the option of saying **** this **** I quit.

I can not believe I'm reading people even trying to compare commercial fishing risks to that of a Marine engaged in house to house fighting in Iraq, are you seriously thinking before you type? Save for LEO's no other civilian job I know of does the person encounter armed persons intent on doing them harm and even LEO's don't have to deal with anything more lethal than firearms, I hope I don't have to list the nearly endless weapons an American combat soldier must face to prove my point.

And remember thus statistics are 99% accurate and 1% true. I despise the use of what are in this case what I call blanket statistics to prove a point or win an argument. I don't know or could be wrong but are the deaths per 1000 of service personnel including all active personnel or adjusted to represent only actual front line combat troops?


I need someone to convince me that it's the same as a commercial fisherman choosing to fish in bad weather and a soldier going into combat against an enemy who will give them no quarter, and unlike the fisherman, roofer or logger can call it quits in middle of a day going bad. Am I the only one who sees this distinction of life as a logger VS that of a soldier or marine in combat?

QFT