AAR: Tony Cowden’s Pistol Class

[NHT3]

I've seen the video you referenced and the point he is driving home is that concentrating on sight alignment is not relevant if you lose that alignment when you slap the trigger. His point being trigger control is much more important than sight alignment.
I would doubt that anyone can control a gun in recoil standing on one foot so I don't see the relevance?
stoneytony is a regular at the carry gun matches and like me usually ends up in the middle of the pack. Some of us are training and trying to improve and it's disturbing that the focus of what he intended to be an informative post became what some saw as a flaw in a picture.


[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]

 

[cedartop]

THIS was the discussion I was hoping for.

My Training Journey:

Indy Firearms Training Intro to Handguns taken on my birthday which started my training journey last year.

BFT classes:
Gun Handling 101

DP101 & 102

Carry Gun Match Practices (not really classes but if Coach did see you do something wrong or a tip he would let ya know)

And then This Tony Cowden class

Couple of odd and end range sessions in between those classes. Focusing on what I learned from that previous class

Rifle:
I only took one rifle course with Point 1 Tactics at the same range (Impact) that involved transitioning from rifle to pistol. And the “check drill” and more. it only called for 100 or so pistol rounds there. Mainly focused on rifle

I am now competing weekly in the carry Gun matches and also the USPSA thrown by Parabellum Gun Range, Coach and friends in Avon, IN

This was a one day class...cost was $300. And yes it was quite a bit info overload. I actually told him this. I said most people didn’t have questions at the end because they’re still trying to process what they learned throughout the day. But I’m pretty sure we would think of something along the way. Another thing he said is we pretty much bought “HIM” any thing we need to work on...send an acceptable video and he would diagnose what he could see as long as he’s living. And if we don’t get a response in a couple of days send the message again. He says he’s on social media to help people and that’s it. Also has his own range in North Carolina and said every one of his students is more than welcome to come out. As long as he’s home...he’s Shooting something.

The safety briefing went over the 4 rules. Squatting on the line vs bending over. Like dropped mags instead of bending over to get them squat so nothing goes over the firing line. And if you’re Gun is still drawn you won’t sweep your feet or the person next to you. Good practice on keeping your head up in situations as well. The closest hospital, and the range owners (husband and wife) were also there participating but would be the ones driving if an accident did happen since they were the only locals. They had 2 Polaris’ filled with med equipment and since we were downhill in one of the shooting bays those were the only things able to get in and out quick enough. I need to get medical training, so any local companies you guys know I would love to take a couple of classes.

The most unique drill was the prep sight press. He made me just shoot in the burm to just focus on getting back to the wall as quickly as possible after I broke the shot. Saying wall wall wall wall wall right after a person shoots makes them get back on it quick and that’s when you get the BOP BOP light bulb moment. And that’s what I loved. I kept hearing CLICK BANGERS from JJ Racaza (Tony did take a class from him) but he really never got into detail on how to really work on it. This exercise shows you how to focus on just that trigger and then you can bring it back into your regular shooting drills.

He also does this with transitions. At first we started with one shot on the first target and then just moved to the next target, we didn’t shoot it though. Just focused on seeing the sights and where was the trigger (which should’ve been on the wall) when we had an acceptable picture. After a couple of reps we did 1 and 1 and then 2 and 2 and so forth. He breaks everything down into lil chunks to digest easier but by the time you’re done. You ate too much

You have a great foundation then. I think very highly of Coach's instruction.

The class cost is really getting up there. I am not sure I would pay $300 for a one day class. I guess if that is what the market will bare then that is what it will be.

 

[cedartop]

I've seen the video you referenced and the point he is driving home is that concentrating on sight alignment is not relevant if you lose that alignment when you slap the trigger. His point being trigger control is much more important than sight alignment.
I would doubt that anyone can control a gun in recoil standing on one foot so I don't see the relevance?
stoneytony is a regular at the carry gun matches and like me usually ends up in the middle of the pack. Some of us are training and trying to improve and it's disturbing that the focus of what he intended to be an informative post became what some saw as a flaw in a picture.


[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]

If you don't see the relevance then I must not have explained it well enough. I was not speaking of any one in particulars stance but how it is not helpful to post a cute quote from a big name with no context or explanation just to support your point of view.

 

[rhino]

Rob has a lot of quotes that appear one way but if you listen to or watch the whole thing of where it came from it is a much different picture. I remember the one video he did where the clickbait was sights are not important or something to that affect. If you watched the whole video he definitely wasn't suggesting you don't aim. My bet is when Rob shoots something where he has to hit fast and accurate he doesn't do it off of one foot if he can help it.

The classic "Aiming is useless!" meme that is not at all the message when you bother to listen to what he has to say.

 

[jkdbjj]

Good on you for going and training. More people should do it, more often. Hang in there and keep shooting!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The class cost is really getting up there. I am not sure I would pay $300 for a one day class. I guess if that is what the market will bare then that is what it will be.

FWIW, you can train with Pannone himself for slightly less...but it doesn't look like he's going to be anywhere remotely local in 2020. Shrek's one day classes are up to $425 now.

 

[cedartop]

FWIW, you can train with Pannone himself for slightly less...but it doesn't look like he's going to be anywhere remotely local in 2020. Shrek's one day classes are up to $425 now.

I think I paid $525 for 2 days both times I trained with Pannone but I don't remember for sure. I must be getting cheap in my old age.

 

[Coach]

The USPSA board did not clear him. They allowed him to remain a member. He had a couple of logical explanations for his edits on practiscore. But there were far more inidents that were not pursued by the board. Several match directors told a different story after the board vote.

This week I discussed it with one of the directors that voted to ban him. This guy is trying to cheat his way to GM status so he can advertise for students.

Saying Ben Stoeger is a jerk is mild. But Ben is right on this.

Tony is not an honest broker.

 

[stoneytoney]

The USPSA board did not clear him. They allowed him to remain a member. He had a couple of logical explanations for his edits on practiscore. But there were far more inidents that were not pursued by the board. Several match directors told a different story after the board vote.

This week I discussed it with one of the directors that voted to ban him. This guy is trying to cheat his way to GM status so he can advertise for students.

Saying Ben Stoeger is a jerk is mild. But Ben is right on this.

Tony is not an honest broker.

Thanks for chiming in Coach. You was the main person I wanted to hear from. I really don’t understand the whole system yet, so when those spreadsheets and stuff was posted I really didn’t know what I was looking at.

The order of events went like this:
Found out he was coming close to me to host a class. WAS SUPER STOKED.

Then he posted about him being suspended on Sep. 12.

I paid for my class Oct. 4th...

The ruling came out Oct. 15/16

It is a bummer finding out he’s trying to cheat into the same sport I’m working hard to better myself in. Feeling deceived because I’m trying to watch where and who i spend my money with and that was one of the selling point for me to sign up for his class. Not the rate of how he got there but because he was simply labeled a GM. Or M. At the same time I did learn at least one thing, so was it worth the $300?

 

[Coach]

Thanks for chiming in Coach. You was the main person I wanted to hear from. I really don’t understand the whole system yet, so when those spreadsheets and stuff was posted I really didn’t know what I was looking at.

The order of events went like this:
Found out he was coming close to me to host a class. WAS SUPER STOKED.

Then he posted about him being suspended on Sep. 12.

I paid for my class Oct. 4th...

The ruling came out Oct. 15/16

It is a bummer finding out he’s trying to cheat into the same sport I’m working hard to better myself in. Feeling deceived because I’m trying to watch where and who i spend my money with and that was one of the selling point for me to sign up for his class. Not the rate of how he got there but because he was simply labeled a GM. Or M. At the same time I did learn at least one thing, so was it worth the $300?

If you are better afterward than before call it a victory and move on. Nothing to worry about.

 

[jkdbjj]

Thanks for chiming in Coach. You was the main person I wanted to hear from. I really don’t understand the whole system yet, so when those spreadsheets and stuff was posted I really didn’t know what I was looking at.

The order of events went like this:
Found out he was coming close to me to host a class. WAS SUPER STOKED.

Then he posted about him being suspended on Sep. 12.

I paid for my class Oct. 4th...

The ruling came out Oct. 15/16

It is a bummer finding out he’s trying to cheat into the same sport I’m working hard to better myself in. Feeling deceived because I’m trying to watch where and who i spend my money with and that was one of the selling point for me to sign up for his class. Not the rate of how he got there but because he was simply labeled a GM. Or M. At the same time I did learn at least one thing, so was it worth the $300?

StoneyToney...

This is unsolicited advice: Find a teacher that has the qualities you are looking for, and the abilities you want to try to one day have---and become his / her long-term student. If you look at successful boxers, wrestlers, mma fighters, martial artists, very few successful stories come from guys that travel a training circuit of lots and lots of coaches. They may have different coaches for different aspects of the game (strength-conditioning; standup; grappling, etc) but they work with those particular coaches for years and years and years, often times entire careers.

I have never trained with Coach but if he teaches what you want---talk to him about how much you can spend a year and give it a go. None of my business, but that is my advice: Find THE guy and work with him consistently and practice his program hard. Good luck

 

[stoneytoney]

StoneyToney...

This is unsolicited advice: Find a teacher that has the qualities you are looking for, and the abilities you want to try to one day have---and become his / her long-term student. If you look at successful boxers, wrestlers, mma fighters, martial artists, very few successful stories come from guys that travel a training circuit of lots and lots of coaches. They may have different coaches for different aspects of the game (strength-conditioning; standup; grappling, etc) but they work with those particular coaches for years and years and years, often times entire careers.

I have never trained with Coach but if he teaches what you want---talk to him about how much you can spend a year and give it a go. None of my business, but that is my advice: Find THE guy and work with him consistently and practice his program hard. Good luck

Yes, I understand.

I go to different instructors for the fact that training is simply fun for me. I also hear how instructors encourage you to go out and find different instructors. For instance Coach does great pistol work, but doesn’t host any rifle classes. So I have to go find a rifle instructor. Another thing is, two different instructors teaching the same thing, BUT they have different deliveries on how to get the message across. I might not understand how instructor #1 wanted me to do it, but the way instructor #2 explains it automatically made something click in my brain. Also the only class that I haven’t taken of Coach is the Carry League and that’s more of like a competition league. I would like to get a one on one session with him though.

I have so many more instructors I want to train under honestly. Here’s a few (the list is a lot longer)

Gabe White (coming in May 2020) (Pistol)

Modern Samurai (Jonesboro, IN 2020) (Red-Dot Pistol / AIWB specialist)

Steve Fisher (coming to Impact in 2020) (Rifle)

Point 1 Tactics (coming to Impact in 2020) (Rifle)

Sage Dynamics / Kinetic Consulting / MDFI for force on force training (goes to MTAC all the time)

I also plan on going to a Reveres Riders rifle class.

 

[Tactically Fat]

I have so many more instructors I want to train under honestly. Here’s a few (the list is a lot longer)

Gabe White (coming in May 2020) (Pistol)

Modern Samurai (Jonesboro, IN 2020) (Red-Dot Pistol / AIWB specialist)

Steve Fisher (coming to Impact in 2020) (Rifle)

Point 1 Tactics (coming to Impact in 2020) (Rifle)

Sage Dynamics / Kinetic Consulting / MDFI for force on force training (goes to MTAC all the time)

I also plan on going to a Reveres Riders rifle class.

You can do way way way way way worse.

 

[cedartop]

Yes, I understand.

I go to different instructors for the fact that training is simply fun for me. I also hear how instructors encourage you to go out and find different instructors. For instance Coach does great pistol work, but doesn’t host any rifle classes. So I have to go find a rifle instructor. Another thing is, two different instructors teaching the same thing, BUT they have different deliveries on how to get the message across. I might not understand how instructor #1 wanted me to do it, but the way instructor #2 explains it automatically made something click in my brain. Also the only class that I haven’t taken of Coach is the Carry League and that’s more of like a competition league. I would like to get a one on one session with him though.

I have so many more instructors I want to train under honestly. Here’s a few (the list is a lot longer)

Gabe White (coming in May 2020) (Pistol)

Modern Samurai (Jonesboro, IN 2020) (Red-Dot Pistol / AIWB specialist)

Steve Fisher (coming to Impact in 2020) (Rifle)

Point 1 Tactics (coming to Impact in 2020) (Rifle)

Sage Dynamics / Kinetic Consulting / MDFI for force on force training (goes to MTAC all the time)

I also plan on going to a Reveres Riders rifle class.

I have trained with Gabe, Scott , and Steve. You wont regret any of those. I still say Gabe White puts on one of if not the best run class out there, and I have been to a lot of them. I would like to get to a Sage Dynamics class still.

 

[downrange72]

Most important thing is you are working on improving.

Did you get that drawn down below 3 seconds?

 

[stoneytoney]

Most important thing is you are working on improving.

Did you get that drawn down below 3 seconds?

Haha you’re gonna have to wait and find out at the next carry Gun match.

No more Glock 23...AND I have brass bullets just for you!!!

 

[INgunowner]

Thanks to the OP. I appreciate your time and effort.
BTW, the picture you posted does represent a legitimate fighting stance, so keep up the good work.