About this Obamacare thingy

[Streak]

Like I said don't ****ing bother because we all know it will be awesome.

Keep on chuggin there brother.

Really, if you have such a hard on for European socialist medical "care" feel free to get the hell out of my country and head on over.
Single payer government healthcare is the end goal, you are either lying or willfully ignorant of that fact, hell your boy obama said that was the goal.

I have to be forced to be in this ****? Who the **** do you think you are to make that demand? Take your big heart and small brain and GTFO.

I've never said Obamacare would be "awesome".

Really, if you have such a hard on for European socialist medical "care" feel free to get the hell out of my country and head on over.

Bull****. I would never disrespect so many who sacrificed for this nation to tell another citizen to "get the hell out of my country" and totally walk over their rights that were supposed to be guaranteed by all the suffering and sacrificing those people went through. How dare you and anyone else tell someone to leave America because you don't agree with their opinion. You don't get to do that, you show those soldiers who worked, sacrificed, and died for this country more respect than that -- because you should be grateful for the rights we have. Being American means you have the right to have an opinion and to speak it. You don't get to take that away.

I have respected your rights and by god if you're a real American you'll respect mine and not tell me to leave this country that I love, because my opinion angers you. America is a democracy and not a dictatorship...you keep calling Obama the Dictator-in-Chief or whatever, well you're acting just like a dictator yourself. Perhaps you should take a long, hard look in the mirror. Now then.....

Single payer government healthcare is the end goal, you are either lying or willfully ignorant of that fact, hell your boy obama said that was the goal.

Absolutely I believe it is. You are completely correct -- Obama said this was a stepping stone. I personally think that a form of Single-payer is a solution. My idea hope is to see something much like the NHS with private and public medical providers and insurance. This way those of us with money can go to private hospitals/doctors and be seen "sooner" or have fancier amenities or have elective/non-medical surgeries while those who can't afford it, can still get a reasonable level of care and be treated. I believe it can work and would be a lot less costly on the system.

And no single payer doesn't mean "free". It means charge what is reasonable for a person dependent upon their income (or free for things like military service, true disability, etc). This stops abuse of the system and makes sure everyone can be seen and treated.


And by the way, for all of those who have served or are serving -- thank you. Sincerely you guys are heroes and if I had my way, I'd gladly pay more taxes to dump more money into your benefit programs. You folks made this possible and you're all heroes. I may not always support the cause, but by god I support you guys.

 

[Smokepole]

I'll let you guys do all of the jabbin', pullin' and spittin', I just want someone to do on thing and that is show me, REALLY, show me where Congress and the President derive the authority to pass and implement the Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare). 'Cause I sure haven't found it. And from EVERYTHING that I have read, heard and been taught, they do not have the authority to do it. NOW, that doesn't mean that they haven't just gone and done it absent the authority and spit in the eyes of the people and the states while doing it. The majority of the country was against it while they were doing it, even more are against it now with that number growing every day. And it is sooooo obvious and transparent that they are delaying the employer mandate until AFTER the 2014 elections because THEY KNOW what it's going to do to the economy beyond what has already happened and that they would lose hands down and likely provide conservatives with super-majorities in both houses.

If these things take hold you can kiss the U.S. that you knew before good bye for a very long time. As for the Brits and other Euro folks, a very large number want to get out from under the Socialist styled governments and economies that have been the norm for 30 years or better. To know how bad things are where healthcare in the U.K. is start reading their news agencies, U.K. Telegraph, Sky and others. Even BBC is putting pieces on this out now about this and they have been the Gov't's Yes blog for decades. If you like the Euro's way of doing things I hope you can be happy with average 1.3 to 1.8% GDP growth and 9.5 to 11.5% Unemployment because those are the averages for the last 20 years. Oh guess what, that's us now. We're there. We are Europe and ObamaCare isn't even close to fully implemented yet. Kudos to Obama. And don't anyone try the "Unemployment is only 7.3%". Even my 16 year old nephew knows better than that. Gallup puts out better numbers than the Gubmint. Read theirs. The REAL unemployment rate is more like 11 or 12%. And when you add Underemployment that figure skyrockets to between 21 and 25%. And National Labor Force participation as a percentage of the labor force as well as the population is at it lowest since the Great Depression (according to the Center on Budget and Policy and the Bureau of Labor Statistics).

And if you think that it will get any better as ObamaCare comes on line you are sadly mistaken. It's only going to dork things up more. THAT'S WHY OBAMA WANTS TO DELAY THE EMPLOYER MANDATE UNTIL AFTER THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

Okay, rant off.

 

[Smokepole]

Streak, there are many things that can be done to bring parity, affordability and ease of access to the system without taking control of the every aspect of the whole bloody thing. The problems that were mentioned at the VA earlier aren't just at the VA and they aren't due to the Republicans either.

The VA is one example of what happens with a GOVERNMENT RUN SYSTEM. I've seen what happens at the BMV, Social Security, EPA, FDA, HUD (specifically section 8 housing programs). The list goes on. Bureaucracies are slow, contentious and inefficient. It is the way they are. And the bigger they are the slower and worse they are. And ObamaCare is and will ALWAYS be the biggest. And as complicated as it is going to be it will be the worst by far. Everything that a bureaucracy does and especially gives or pays out is a line item in a budget. It can't be any other way, because there is only so much money that they can get their hands on. it is the only way that it can be. And if you think that single payer isn't the end game here then you are either not paying attention or willfully blind.

 

[Smokepole]

And for those that think that the British NHS is soo good, I give you this straight from the U.K. Telegraph: NHS patients 45% more likely to die than in US - Telegraph

Patients are 45% more likely to die in NHS hospitals than in US ones, according to figures revealing how badly England’s health service compares with those of other countries

OUCH!

 

[paddywonka]

The British as well as the Canadian health care plans leave a lot to be desired. Hope we are not heading that way.

 

[spirit390]

Only the willfull ignorant, the mildly retarded or democrat would think a UK style healthcare system would be a good thing. It is about care not coverage. If universal health care is so great why do they come to this country when they need any major surgery. Ehh I'm done here I am not going to argue with an organizing for america shill. The only reason I participated was to try and help uninformed people see whats happening and where to look for info. I hope I have helped and good luck arguing with the obama fanboi

 

[Streak]

Only the willfull ignorant, the mildly retarded or democrat would think a UK style healthcare system would be a good thing. It is about care not coverage. If universal health care is so great why do they come to this country when they need any major surgery. Ehh I'm done here I am not going to argue with an organizing for america shill. The only reason I participated was to try and help uninformed people see whats happening and where to look for info. I hope I have helped and good luck arguing with the obama fanboi

It's telling when a man has to resort to namecalling. I'm not an OFA shill (now I know what that means) and I'm not a "fanboi".

You've been proven wrong on several things and quite frankly I'm wondering if you were so wrong about the basics why in the hell would I listen to you about the specifics?

Secondly there arr plenty of Americans going to other countries for medical procedures or buying prescriptions from places like Mexico. The WHO sure as hell didn't rate the quality of America's healthcare #1...we weren't even in the top 5 iirc. I know that France beat us according to the WHO.

I've done the research through ACADEMIC sources. I don't use some blog for my information and if you care about true knowledge seeking you'll stop.

 

[printcraft]

Bull****. I would never disrespect so many who sacrificed for this nation to tell another citizen to "get the hell out of my country" and totally walk over their rights that were supposed to be guaranteed by all the suffering and sacrificing those people went through. How dare you and anyone else tell someone to leave America because you don't agree with their opinion. You don't get to do that, you show those soldiers who worked, sacrificed, and died for this country more respect than that -- because you should be grateful for the rights we have. Being American means you have the right to have an opinion and to speak it. You don't get to take that away.

Get the government out of my life, it does not contribute to anything, it is only a black hole of control.
Yes, GTFO. The creeping crud of socialism is what those soldiers who worked, sacrificed, and died for this country were fighting against.
The "We're going to fundamentally change America" crowd were duped, you thought it would be a bright new future where
we all hold hands, instead you got a double dose of socialism.
Sorry, you don't get to wrap yourself in the flag if you are actively participating in destroying what it stands for.

And no single payer doesn't mean "free".

No **** it doesn't mean free. It basically means taking from the producers and giving to the non producers.
From each according to his means to each according to his needs...... Sounds familiar..... WHERE have I heard that before.......

 

[cobber]

Baby steps!! Time for a guaranteed citizen's income. And universal wage and price controls, because we all know EVERYTHING costs too much and everyone gets paid too little (or too much).

Or just eliminate money altogether and make everything free.

Really, the solutions are so simple and obvious.

 

[Shadow8088]

Or just eliminate money altogether and make everything free.

To be perfectly honest, that, right there, would solve most of the world's problems... Sure there'd be anarchy for a while, sure people would stop working.... until the food ran out, the power went off, the water stopped flowing(that's a biggie).... and then people would be forced to work to survive.... you'd also see priorities for real necessities change... Can't wait to hear the responses to this one, but I've been saying this since I was a kid... If money is "the great equalizer" get rid of it... success will be based on what you do, not what you have in your wallet.

 

[Smokepole]

success will be based on what you do, not what you have in your wallet.

But that wouldn't be FAAAAAAAAAIR! what about the people that would rather live on welfare and such and let "THE MAN" take care of all of their needs, like food, housing, clothing, education and HEALTH CARE.

 

[bwframe]

Here ya go. It's gonna get much worse before it gets better:
IU Health to eliminate 800 jobs - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

 

[jamil]

It's telling when a man has to resort to namecalling. I'm not an OFA shill (now I know what that means) and I'm not a "fanboi".

You've been proven wrong on several things and quite frankly I'm wondering if you were so wrong about the basics why in the hell would I listen to you about the specifics?

Secondly there arr plenty of Americans going to other countries for medical procedures or buying prescriptions from places like Mexico. The WHO sure as hell didn't rate the quality of America's healthcare #1...we weren't even in the top 5 iirc. I know that France beat us according to the WHO.

I've done the research through ACADEMIC sources. I don't use some blog for my information and if you care about true knowledge seeking you'll stop.

Wikipedia? Really?

 

[jamil]

Streak, if you want a single payer system, what you're really saying is that you want the government to forcibly take resources from me, and give them to you. You want me to pay for your healthcare. Health care isn't a right. That's just a sound bite the left uses to make it sound like "society" owes you something. I'm sorry. You don't have a right to force other people do things for you.

 

[jon5212]

This is for Streak as well. I'm sorry, I'm not paying into a bloated Obamacare fund so half of the population of Americans can load up hospitals by going to the ER for a simple cold. You have no "right" to healthcare nor insurance. They are both services you can utilize, however YOU and YOU ALONE should be required to fund it. If our entire healthcare system wasn't so full of FRAUD it's not funny, we ALL could afford our own healthcare no sweat at all. However with all the sue happy idiots and healthcare fraud that occurs every year, you wonder why insurance is so expensive.

Again it is just like auto insurance, you don't HAVE to have it to own a vehicle, plenty of people drive around without it, but when you cause an accident you are on your own. So yes again Obamacare is the biggest piece of s*** legislation ever drafted besides the Patriot act.

And here's some medical advice, quit drinking the kool aid.

 

[Shadow8088]

If our entire healthcare system wasn't so full of FRAUD it's not funny

You mean like how if I have insurance, the Dr charges $350 to the insurance company, but when I'm self-pay it's only $115?

 

[actaeon277]

You mean like how of I have insurance, the Dr charges $350 to the insurance company, but when I'm self-pay it's only $115?

When they do that, it's to pay for several others that haven't.

 

[cardio1]

If they don't work with exchanges then they won't work with private healthcare -- because that's what an exchange is, a group of people getting together to buy insurance from private carriers at a discount (much as large companies do now).

Some information on exchanges here

You're attacking the NHS? I'm not going to pretend to know everyone in the UK, but by and large the acceptance rate for the UK NHS is far higher than those who hate it. As for the "shocking" waits...what's worse, waiting 80 hours or not going at all? Because that's one of the biggest issues with America's healthcare system, people simply don't go to get checked out or get medical treatment. They either die or something serious happens and they're dying and HAVE to be seen. What was a cheap, quick, and fixable medical condition became an expensive procedure that the patient doesn't/can't pay on. That cost goes to those of us with insurance which causes premiums to go up.

So if you can't think about it in a compassionate way, you can certainly see the financial logic. You're paying far more for this than if everyone had some kind of health insurance. Again I'm not personally looking forward to Obamacare...it doesn't solve the problem adequately. I am a BIG fan of the NHS system because it allows for both private and public healthcare models.

But you know what...don't take my word for it. Read through the comments from the UKers on those articles. Most are approaching this with either "this article is BS" or they're looking for different options within the NHS. Literally the calls to "privatize" their healthcare are from a small, non-growing minority. And why is that? Because at the end of the day, if you have a medical condition you're not sitting back and weighing the options between getting checked out and paying rent/eating.


And before we go any further down the eating/paying route, let me point something out: not all of the uninsured, "poor" are lazy deadbeats. I worked two part-time jobs and neither company was hiring full timers. I worked at least 40 hours / week and made what came out to be ~$15/hr (averaged out between the two jobs). I got sick with a cold that went deep into my chest. I let it stew there for a month taking cough suppressants for 2 weeks straight (by the way...don't do this if you have a cough until you talk to your doctor...this mistake is what caused the big issue). Within a month I found it hard to simply walk upstairs, ran fevers nearly constantly (small ones), and felt miserable. I finally decided to eat the money and go to an urgent care facility (redimed if anyone has heard of it).

The doctor there put this thing on my finger and measured the amount of oxygen in my blood. It had dropped to ~87% and after listening to my lungs with his stethoscope he wanted me to go straight to the ER. I had a pretty bad case of pneumonia and it bad enough that he thought I should be staying in a hospital. I nearly broke down with anxiety in the office and literally begged him, like a ****ing loser, to do ANYTHING else to allow me to be treated there. I didn't have the money for the ER visit. He put me on this vapor machine that was laced with steroids and whatever else was in the misty **** that I inhaled. I was put on strong antibiotics which caused stomach issues (eating yogurt is a good way to cure those btw) and I was ordered to stay home for 4 days.

The total cost for all of this, after getting some waived, was over $400. What stuck with me the most out of all of that was this: I could've saved myself so much time and money by simply going -- but I didn't want to pay the $100 for the office visit ($100 = average cost of doctor's office visit) and the $50 for the antibiotics they would've issued me and that I had to feel real fear and beg a doctor to take a subpar treatment for something that literally kills people.

There's nothing like nearly crying in a doctors office because you can't afford the medical treatment being recommended...there's nothing like the feeling of helplessness and dread knowing that if something can't be done I could either die or put myself back into a financial hole that I was working my ass off to crawl out of. And I did crawl out of that hole and I'll never go back. My opinion on healthcare isn't shaped by what Glenn Beck or Bill Mahr or Steven Colbert say. It's shaped because I went through something that was horrible and I truly believe that no American should have to suffer like that.

Things are much different for me and I work for a hospital and I've went through a lot to get where I am today. People on here think I'm some lazy ass liberal and I'm not -- I'm a guy who went through a real rough patch in life. Some of it was my fault and some of it couldn't be helped. I came out with a different world view from when I went in and a lot of suffering doesn't need to happen. I'm not advocating giving people free TVs or steak and lobster dinners or cars. I'm advocating giving them access an insurance that lowers the price of healthcare to a level they can reasonably afford. I'm advocating for a healthcare system that allows those of us with more money to buy extra insurance and go to private hospitals where you can **** in gold bed pans and have topless nurses motorboat you back to health -- if that's what you want.

What we have now isn't working and it's truly the laughing stock of the world. Ask around.

You say you want facts. What is printed is not opinion, but FACTS. After 60 years of managing the kind of health care you want and hope for, these are the results.
These articles are not attacks nor opinion, but they are published investigations in to the current state of care in England. The most significant was actually an investigation by commissioned by the Parliament.
A=A
It is what it is.

 

[actaeon277]

Let's see now.
If you want cheaper healthcare, maybe we need more doctors and nurses.
So maybe the Act helped with low interest loans for doctors and nurses going to school. No, it didn't.
Maybe they did something to reform tort law. Some people sue for good cause, some people sue for a living. Act doesn't do anything for that either.
What did they do? Hired more IRS agents. Yep, more administration, I'm sure that'll help.
Tax people that can't afford healthcare? Isn't that kinda like taxing the homeles for not having a home.

 

[tenring]

All previous posts aside, Kenyan Kare promises "access" to health care, but where does it state that you are actually going to get it? With the country facing a current shortage of 30,000 doctors, think along the lines waiting for a store to open so you can look for .22LR ammo. You have access to that store, but are you actually going to get it? And as far as the VA goes, yes they are under funded, under staffed, and over worked. It ain't pretty, and it's going to get worse. Read the entire bill, and it will start to become clear. And look for the amount of dollars that an employer pays in for your health insurance to be classified as income and that will be taxable!