Alcohol and LTCH

[ABolt243]

Ladies and Gents,

Trying to build a database here to use in developing an LTC of our own. What does IN law say about carrying and alcohol? Does it just say "Not while intoxicated" or is there a specific BAC% given, and if so what level is used? I've looked in sec 35 of the IN statutes but must have overlooked it.

Thanks in advance,
AB

 

[SavageEagle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not illegal to carry and drink, but in Bryan Ciyuo's book it's just not a "smart" thing to do. If you shoot someone in self-defense, justified or not, the prosecutor could argue that the alky had impaired your judgement and you might have had other options.

 

[Bigum1969]

I don't believe there is a specific law regarding drinking and carrying a firearm, but IMHO, it would be incredibly stupid and irresponsible.

I never drink while carrying. It's easy for me because I really don't drink that much.

Carrying a firearm is a serious responsibility. Actually having to use a firearm to defend your life would be a monumental and life changing experience. It would be hard enough to handle a life threatening situation sober, much less under the influence.

Just my

 

[Integraholic]

IMO, just a few drinks is ok. If you're going to a party and plan on drinking a bit more, put the gun away.

 

[Crystalship1]

I don't believe there is a specific law regarding drinking and carrying a firearm, but IMHO, it would be incredibly stupid and irresponsible.

I never drink while carrying. It's easy for me because I really don't drink that much.

Carrying a firearm is a serious responsibility. Actually having to use a firearm to defend your life would be a monumental and life changing experience. It would be hard enough to handle a life threatening situation sober, much less under the influence.

Just my

Very well stated!!!

 

[SavageEagle]

I tend to think with Intergaholic. Maybe if you're only having a beer, depending on your tolerance, would be ok, but not if you plan on getting trashed. My wife disarms me if I start drinking drinking but she never says anything if I have a beer on one drink.

Either way making a law that says you can't defend yourself with deadly force just because you've been drinking would be over-stepping a boundry. IMHO of course.

 

[Scutter01]

I rarely drink, but if I do, it means the firearm is no longer an option and I need to rely on my other self-defense skills. That doesn't necessarily mean I need to lock it up somewhere, I just tell myself that it won't be used.

I agree that any prosecutor is going to jump on even the smallest BAC as a wedge to convict you, and I'm a firm believer of not relying on only a gun for self defense.

 

[Bigum1969]

I tend to think with Intergaholic. Maybe if you're only having a beer, depending on your tolerance, would be ok, but not if you plan on getting trashed. My wife disarms me if I start drinking drinking but she never says anything if I have a beer on one drink.

Either way making a law that says you can't defend yourself with deadly force just because you've been drinking would be over-stepping a boundry. IMHO of course.

I don't want to start anything, but I get so tired of hearing how some people have a tolerance for alcohol. Just because someone doesn't act like an a$$ after a few drinks, it doesn't mean that their decision-making skills aren't impaired.

I don't want to see any law addressing drinking and carrying a firearm, but carrying a gun and potentially using it is serious business.

Again, my

 

[SavageEagle]

I don't want to start anything, but I get so tired of hearing how some people have a tolerance for alcohol. Just because someone doesn't act like an a$$ after a few drinks, it doesn't mean that their decision-making skills aren't impaired.

I don't want to see any law addressing drinking and carrying a firearm, but carrying a gun and potentially using it is serious business.

Again, my

I agree completely and maybe I misstated myself some. One drink won't impair you decision making as much as say a six pack. I was just saying that just because you're drinking, if someone's threatening your life or that of another, you shouldn't be barred from using deadly force. That's all.

And as it's been stated before, just the fact of a person pulling their firearm would usually be enough for some to stop and think twice so therefore deadly force could be avoided just by the threat of said force against force.

 

[foxxie02]

i agree with most here that alcohol and packing are not the best of choices, i for one dont drink much but when i do go to the local bar i go to one that i know there are others in the crowd packing as well and I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by six!! too many stories of bars being targeted by thugs either in the establishment or outside.

 

[USMC_0311]

I have carried for over 20 years. No matter what I am always armed at work, home, or other. I have real issues with paranoia while unarmed and I do not think it's wise to drink and carry so I found myself just not drinking period. Occasionally I would have a beer or two at home, but I didn't bother to disarm then either. After thinking about it I now believe the real issue is not should we carry while drinking, but more shouldn’t we be drinking responsibly period. I will stop by the VFW after work and have a beer now. I do not disarm because I am drinking, I just drink responsible. I also carry concealed and think it’s a good idea while drinking. I had a personal experience several years ago as young Marine out drinking with his buddies. Long story short, I unloaded the 1911 and locked it in the glove compartment. Went in the bar and closed the place down and walked away from a fight (I still don’t know how that happened with young drunk marines). The designated driver got stabbed in the parking lot of the local breakfast place. I saw this happen and ran to the car, unlocked the glove compartment and pulled out the 1911, I forgot I unloaded it. Two dudes start coming at me and I aimed and pulled the trigger at the one with the knife, he was probably 20 feet away. CLICK (the loudest damn click I ever heard). They both freeze and I explain to them that I just clicked the safety off. I persuaded them to get on there knees and wait on the cops. Was I drunk? Legally yes. Was I fortunate that I unloaded the gun before drinking? No, they were. I was pissed at myself for pointing an unloaded gun at the bad guys. I was lucky it worked out but they would have stabbed my drunken ass if I didn’t have my gun. Never again will I be caught like that. Life is about the choices we make but by being responsible with those choices we don’t have to sacrifice everything.

 

[Pami]

+1 to Bigum. Any impairment is too much impairment. Especially where alcohol and drugs are concerned, any LEO is likely to question the validity of a clean shoot.

To answer the OP, I agree with Bigum and don't believe the law should state whether you can carry with any specified level of alcohol consumption.

I don't want to see any law addressing drinking and carrying a firearm, but carrying a gun and potentially using it is serious business.

 

[jsgolfman]

While the law doesn't specify any restrictions to carrying while under the influence or even drinking for that matter, based on the language in 35, I would advise against it:

"Suspension or revocation of license; failure to return license; rules concerning procedure for suspending or revoking license
Sec. 5. (a) The superintendent may suspend or revoke any license issued under this chapter if he has reasonable grounds to believe that the person's license should be suspended or revoked.
(b) Documented evidence that a person is not a "proper person" to be licensed as defined by IC 35-47-1-7, or is prohibited under section 3(g)(5) of this chapter from being issued a license, shall be grounds for immediate suspension or revocation of a license previously issued under this chapter. However, if a license is suspended or revoked based solely on an arrest under section 3(g)(5) of this chapter, the license shall be reinstated upon the acquittal of the defendant in that case or upon the dismissal of the charges for the specific offense.

Now, what is the definition of a proper person?

IC 35-47-1-7
"Proper person"
Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44-3-3 within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year;
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in IC 35-41-1-6.3), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7;
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun;
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application;
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun;
(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within five (5) years of the person's application; or
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age.

The sections in bold are pertinent in that you may happen to get into an altercation whilst partaking of adult beverages and, presto, you are no longer a proper person.

 

[SavageEagle]

(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;

The sections in bold are pertinent in that you may happen to get into an altercation whilst partaking of adult beverages and, presto, you are no longer a proper person.

You have a good point. But on the other hand your lawyer could then argue that any person who partakes in adult beverages is then not a proper person so anyone who drinks, well, you get the idea. While somewhat far fetched, it's not without merit and would cause much headache and a wallet pain. Very good point though.

 

[ABolt243]

Gents,

Thanks very much for the personal thoughts on this subject. I could argue both sides. I'm not for disarming anyone (I'm disarmed enough in the state of IL!). But then, in my younger years, I've been in a few places with some people that only needed the catalyst of a loaded firearm to turn a volatile situation into a real catastrophe. If everyone could drink responsibly, no problem, but some can't or won't.

My original question, "What does your law say?" has been answered. If I read correctly, alcohol consumption is not addressed directly. But, misuse of a firearm while under the influence might get you deemed "not a proper person" and would not be looked upon favorably in a court of law.

Thanks for the help.

AB