All over a Used Xbox

[jamil]

I think you are confusing the "act" with the "person".
Killing someone is "violence". Regardless of justification.
Yes, that person can still be a "peaceful person".
But it does not change the fact that the act of killing was violence.

Yep, killing someone in self defense is a violent act. But it’s not a malicious violent act when someone else initiates malicious violence against you.

I think the guy thought that all he had to do is show the bad guy he had one too and that makes it a draw. But the bad guy won and he lost.

 

[femurphy77]

Most likely thought of the gun as a talisman. He watched way the hell to Much TV.

No one will ever really know. If you fear judicial reprisal then just leave it at home. And it is not a talisman. Not an end all by just pointing it.

I enjoy watching "stupid people doing stupid **** and then getting hurt" videos and it's amazing the number of attempted armed robberies that turn into bad guy with a gun running like a little ***** when his intended victim pulls out their own piece. There are people that think the "sight" of a gun is enough to control a situation. The willingness to use the gun is the controlling factor not the thought of somebody having it.

No statistical info to back it up but just watching the surveillance tapes would make a case for at least some of the bad guys don't want to use it, they just hope the sight of the gun is enough to control the situation. Personally I hope I'm never in that situation.

 

[femurphy77]

If he was Open Carrying it would have never happened.

But does it need to be a Glock or a 1911 for this power to work?

 

[Denny347]

To go from peaceful citizen, to killing someone, is a hurdle [STRIKE]some[/STRIKE] MOST are not prepared for.

FIFY. Arming a sheep does not make them a sheepdog, just an armed sheep...baaaaaahhhhh

 

[HoughMade]

I'm sure my mindset needs adjustment, but my gun doesn't clear the holster unless it's going to be fired. If something happens in a split second to change that, great, but I don't "skin that smokewagon" to point it at someone, scare someone, or prompt a debate.

 

[engi-ninja]

I'm sure my mindset needs adjustment, but my gun doesn't clear the holster unless it's going to be fired. If something happens in a split second to change that, great, but I don't "skin that smokewagon" to point it at someone, scare someone, or prompt a debate.

I actually agree with this. My thinking is, if you don't need to shoot, don't pull the gun out. The decision to draw comes when you've already decided shooting is a necessity, and if that's the case, not shooting is foolish. That is not to say, necessarily, that once you draw you HAVE to shoot; but drawing before you've decided you must shoot (to scare, for instance) seems like a bad idea. The exception would be in cases where you can draw without being seen by the attacker.

 

[223 Gunner]

If I am at gunpoint over an X Box. I would have just slowly set the X Box on the ground and let them have it.
Being shot, or killed over an item that is replaceable for a few hundred dollars is not worth the court headache or losing your life.
Very sad that this happened.

 

[jbombelli]

I'm sure my mindset needs adjustment, but my gun doesn't clear the holster unless it's going to be fired. If something happens in a split second to change that, great, but I don't "skin that smokewagon" to point it at someone, scare someone, or prompt a debate.

Same here. If I'm drawing I'm firing. If they do something in that short time between reaching for my pistol and pulling the trigger that makes pulling the trigger unnecessary, awesome.

 

[2A_Tom]

I'm sure my mindset needs adjustment, but my gun doesn't clear the holster unless it's going to be fired. If something happens in a split second to change that, great, but I don't "skin that smokewagon" to point it at someone, scare someone, or prompt a debate.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HoughMade again.

.

 

[Jaybird1980]

If I am at gunpoint over an X Box. I would have just slowly set the X Box on the ground and let them have it.
Being shot, or killed over an item that is replaceable for a few hundred dollars is not worth the court headache or losing your life.
Very sad that this happened.

Compliance doesn't gaurantee your safety.
I wasn't there so I can't judge what happened, I believe that if the gun was drawn it should of been used. just wish there would of been a better ending

 

[rhino]

I'm sure my mindset needs adjustment, but my gun doesn't clear the holster unless it's going to be fired. If something happens in a split second to change that, great, but I don't "skin that smokewagon" to point it at someone, scare someone, or prompt a debate.

Depends on the situation. I've been stuck a few places where I had to wait in a vehicle in a dicey area. I chose to hold my pistol in my hand, out of sight, but ready for immediate use. I would not hesitate to do so again under similar circumstances. That would also be the case were I accompanying someone during a business transaction with an unknown person (like meeting someone from Craig's List to lawfully buy or sell something). It also happens if someone shows up at my door unannounced and unexpected.

If someone enters my house against my will, the pistol is definitely coming out. The decision to shoot or not would depend on their actions both prior too and immediately after I had the the gun in my hands, but I'm not going to remain holstered just because I have not yet made the decision to press the trigger.

The gun comes out when I need to be ready to shoot. That doesn't mean that I have to shoot or that I've necessarily already made the decision shoot. It also doesn't mean that it's automatically coming out just because I think I might need it at some point - again, it depends on the situation.

 

[223 Gunner]

Compliance doesn't gaurantee your safety.
I wasn't there so I can't judge what happened, I believe that if the gun was drawn it should of been used. just wish there would of been a better ending

I agree, compliance doesn't guarantee your safety. Obviously I wasn't there either, by complying maybe they would have just taken it and ran off.
Or maybe they would take it and shoot you anyway, it's hard too say. I too wish there had been a better ending. People suck sometimes.

 

[actaeon277]

Yep, killing someone in self defense is a violent act. But it’s not a malicious violent act when someone else initiates malicious violence against you.

I think the guy thought that all he had to do is show the bad guy he had one too and that makes it a draw. But the bad guy won and he lost.

I disagree.
If someone comes after me with a tire iron, and I wrestle it away and pummel them with the tire iron, it is a violent act.
Justified, yes.
But still a violent act.

Being justified means it is not murder. But it is still violence.

Definition of violence

1a : the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy
b : an instance of violent treatment or procedure

2 : injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : outrage

3a : intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force the violence of the storm
b : vehement feeling or expression : fervor also : an instance of such action or feeling
c : a clashing or jarring quality : discordance

4 : undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text)

 

[jamil]

I disagree.
If someone comes after me with a tire iron, and I wrestle it away and pummel them with the tire iron, it is a violent act.
Justified, yes.
But still a violent act.

Being justified means it is not murder. But it is still violence.

Definition of violence

1a : the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy
b : an instance of violent treatment or procedure

2 : injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : outrage

3a : intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force the violence of the storm
b : vehement feeling or expression : fervor also : an instance of such action or feeling
c : a clashing or jarring quality : discordance

4 : undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text)

I didn’t say defending yourself with necessary force isn’t violent. I was making the same point as you, but qualifying it further to say the thing that matters is if it’s malicious. Now, when you use force beyond what is reasonably necessary to defend yourself, like taking the tire-iron and continually beating the guy with it after you’ve resolved the threat. that swings your violence in a malicious direction, away from being justified.

Then again, I suppose sometimes a point needs to be made with a good tire iron.

 

[Denny347]

 

[actaeon277]

I didn’t say defending yourself with necessary force isn’t violent. I was making the same point as you, but qualifying it further to say the thing that matters is if it’s malicious. Now, when you use force beyond what is reasonably necessary to defend yourself, like taking the tire-iron and continually beating the guy with it after you’ve resolved the threat. that swings your violence in a malicious direction, away from being justified.

Then again, I suppose sometimes a point needs to be made with a good tire iron.

I find it helps.

 

[Paul30]

I actually agree with this. My thinking is, if you don't need to shoot, don't pull the gun out. The decision to draw comes when you've already decided shooting is a necessity, and if that's the case, not shooting is foolish. That is not to say, necessarily, that once you draw you HAVE to shoot; but drawing before you've decided you must shoot (to scare, for instance) seems like a bad idea. The exception would be in cases where you can draw without being seen by the attacker.

I don't like the phrase "Don't pull a gun unless you intend to use it'. This puts one in the mindset that if you pull the gun, you MUST fire it. Discussing these situations and living through them are different things. Most people who carry don't leave the house on any given day thinking they will have to put a bullet in a human, so it is quite the adrenalin generating event if it comes to that.

Decades ago I had guy pull a knife that went past his elbow when he held it and was walking towards my sister and her husband in a dark parking lot and kept flashing it to me to try to scare me off. I figured he didn't know we knew each other as we were in separate vehicles and was likely trying to scare me off so he could harm or rob them. What he didn't know was I was armed, and was quite willing to put rounds in his body to stop his actions until he was no longer a threat to our well being. I didn't consider the gun a symbol to scare anyone off, I considered it a tool that was going to keep punching holes in this guys body until he stopped trying to harm them. He was parked a good distance away from us, and he started getting spooked as he noticed every time he flashed that long knife so I could see it, I seemed to not be going anywhere, and had a solid stare at him. He finally got spooked, turned around and went back to his car. I had already retrieved my handgun, and an extra magazine after the first flash of the blade. I will NEVER forget that night, because it reminds me how close I came to putting a bullet in a fellow human being. I also know that when it happened, I had no doubt that I was going to do it without hesitation when the time came. I will say I did have the gun in my hand, but am very glad I did not live by the "Fire it if you pull it" philosophy. Many variables, a knife vs a gun, etc.

I wasn't at the Xbox situation so I hate to pass judgment. If he has a gun drawn, give him the Xbox, if he already has his gun drawn and you feel you need to pull yours, you had better be firing fast because not only is a gun not a magic wand to compel people to follow your instructions, they also are not required to abstain from shooting you with a few bullets in them if they are determined. Depending on shot placement, they can shoot back and many times.

 

[craigkim]

Maybe he expected to come back at a nearby spawn point?

 

[JeepHammer]

To go from peaceful citizen, to killing someone, is a hurdle some are not prepared for.

Even with training...
See the monumental number of screwed up vets we have even after months of combat training.

I wasn't there, didn't see it, wasn't involved...
If the story is as stated, I would have handed over the used X-box, if for no other reason to make the 'Bad Guy' feel more at ease in the event he didn't leave and I had to shoot.