Alternate Energy (steam)

[diablo750]

I've found that as I began prepping that back packing falls inline as a applied prepping hobby. It gives you a chance to practice essential survival skills as well as allowing you to travel to some breath taking locations. While browsing for some gear I came across this BioLite CampStove | Order Today A light weight wood burning stove for cooking that also provides power for usb devices. I read some review and watched a few videos and it seems like the power capabilities are limited. I decided to look for other options but only found wind, solar, and battery solutions. I was wondering if anyone has seen or has plans for something to generate energy from steam power? I feel like there should be something you can attach to the end of a kettle or a stand alone option to generate electricity through steam. Let me know if you know of anything.

Thanks,

Lance

 

[IndyDave1776]

If you pick up machinist's magazines, I recall that plans for miniature steam engines were de rigueur in the classifieds and photo ads. I don't see any reason you couldn't rig a belt to an alternator and be in business, assuming that powering your gadgets is what you had in mind. If you have bigger aspirations, I fail to see why the plans couldn't be scaled up and coupled to a larger generator with the caveat that you may want to directly feed batteries since governing a self-built steam engine for 60Hz is a pain to the extent that I could not figure out a reliable way to do it before losing interest several years ago.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Small scale steam is one of the least viable methods for reliable power generation there is. Fine for a hobbyist, but it requires a very high degree of maintenance and upkeep and at the scales you are likely to achieve extremely inefficient. I'm not talking theory or "I heard" here, I am (or was) a professional in alternative energy systems design.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Jay Leno's got a couple of large-scale steam engines in his collection, any one of which would have pride of place in my backyard.

Once you're talking renewable energy electricity generation, using unreliable rotational power, you're not talking about trying to get the engine (of whatever design) to run at 60Hz through a variable transformer to attempt a semblance of 120VAC. You're talking about taking whatever you can get, send it through a rectifier, conditioning capacitors, and regulator to try to get something, anything, above 0VDC that you can use.

 

[diablo750]

I wasn't really thinking on a 120vac scale. When I was thinking of power on the trail I was thinking I could get the most reliable form of energy from heat (eg campfire) vs wind or solar which just doesn't seem to produce enough considering time, weight, and size. Something capable of charging a phone or flashlight battery was what I was going for. Maybe produce 100 watts in a light weight package. If steam is the route to go it seems like a turbine would be easiest because you wouldn't have to deal with valves and timing. Maybe I was being to optimistic to think that getting electricity out of fire would be easy. I might spend sometime seeing if there are any hand or foot powered dynamos out there could meet my needs. Thanks for the input so far.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I wasn't really thinking on a 120vac scale. When I was thinking of power on the trail I was thinking I could get the most reliable form of energy from heat (eg campfire) vs wind or solar which just doesn't seem to produce enough considering time, weight, and size. Something capable of charging a phone or flashlight battery was what I was going for. Maybe produce 100 watts in a light weight package. If steam is the route to go it seems like a turbine would be easiest because you wouldn't have to deal with valves and timing. Maybe I was being to optimistic to think that getting electricity out of fire would be easy. I might spend sometime seeing if there are any hand or foot powered dynamos out there could meet my needs. Thanks for the input so far.

If you are simply wanting to go Rube Goldberg for a little gadget charging while hiking/camping, why not mount an alternator and a small (think motorcycle or lawn and garden) sealed maintenance-free battery on a platform which will fit in your backpack (albeit at the expense of taking up space you could use for other things) with a hand crank to spin the alternator at a favorable speed through gearing (roller chains are the most efficient form of transfer) and you can crank with one hand while holding your stick with the food with the other if the battery runs low enough not to charge your phone.

 

[giovani]

A sterling engine might be capable of turning a generator small enough to charge a cell phone, and maintainence would be minimal.

 

[briand212]

stirling engines are really cool from what I have seen they are not cheap nor light.
check out ebay and search for steam engine, steam turbines and stirling engines,, that should give you an idea of some that are available.

 

[Iroquois]

First you gotta come up with a safe boiler, but steam pressure can be regulated much like air pressure. I wonder if a turbo_chargr could be modified to spin an alternator?

 

[briand212]

for a boiler I wonder if you could convert a pressure cooker that is made for canning ,

UPDATE

just found http://www.greensteamengine.com/ according to them you can use a pressure cooker

 

[CathyInBlue]

What's wrong with a simple single-cylinder fly-wheel steam engine? There's not a lot of moving parts. Easy to diagnose problems. Easy to regulate. Easy to tap for mechanical power to do whatever. Those "green" steam engines are never gonna be more than a novelty.

 

[shibumiseeker]

What's wrong with a simple single-cylinder fly-wheel steam engine? There's not a lot of moving parts. Easy to diagnose problems. Easy to regulate. Easy to tap for mechanical power to do whatever. Those "green" steam engines are never gonna be more than a novelty.

For hiking or backpacking or even just lugging the thing around one small enough to do that with isn't going to generate much power. The OP would be better off with some thermoelectric cells and building a customized small firebox and using twigs and the like to fire it AND cook on. The efficiency is about the same as a small steam engine, better than a Stirling engine, and does not require any maintenance other than feeding the fire. I have two 15 watt modules that are about 4" square and together weigh about 6oz. A small aluminum firebox could be made for an additional set and generate as much as 50-60 watts with no moving parts. To even produce 15 watts with a portable steam engine is going to weigh several pounds and require much more tending and will be far more prone to breakdown and scale buildup (the BIGGEST problem with small scale steam).


Why haven't I done this yet? Because for hiking and backpacking solar panels are still the lightest, cheapest, and simplest option out there. Yeah, the sun doesn't always shine, but I still get some power on all but the cloudiest days and I simply do not require that much electricity while out on the woods. A 20 watt panel weighs half a pound, requires no tending at all, and generates 50-100 w/h each day and costs less than $50. Combined with small LiIon battery pack I have enough power to do whatever I want while out hiking. I bought the thermoelectric cells to play with power generation from my woodstove in the winter because I want to thoroughly understand the capabilities and limitations of them.

Now, for stationary use, a simple single-cylinder steam engine is a more viable option but is still far less efficient and more prone to breakdown than many other options including wood gassification, biomass-methane, ethanol/methanol, and similar options. Again, fine for a hobbyist, but not a better solution for someone generating their own power daily.

 

[CathyInBlue]

I would never consider a steam engine of any kind for hiking/backpacking. Nor would I consider wood gassification, alcohol fuel, etc., etc.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I would never consider a steam engine of any kind for hiking/backpacking. Nor would I consider wood gassification, alcohol fuel, etc., etc.

I didn't think you would, but the OP is asking about that specifically and some of the other respondents are addressing it in that vein. Surprisingly though, a methanol production set from destructive distillation of wood COULD be made small enough to easily be backpackable and combined with a methanol fuel cell would potentially be a viable option for power generation in the back-beyond assuming biomass sources were available.

 

[diablo750]

Thanks for all the info shibumiseeker! With your help I found what I was looking for. While I was looking up thermoelectric cells I found this Thermoelectric Generator by The PowerPot: convert heat into electricity . Im gonna try and find a few reviews on it but it looks like it will work. Whenever Im charging stuff in the woods I'll think of you.

 

[Valvestate]

Those little wood burning chargers use thermoemectric couplings. You can build your own stove, but the TECs are very fragile if care isnt taken. They're made of little semiconductors sandwiched between two very thin ceramic plates. Overclockers in the early 2000s used them to refridgerate they're CPUs.

For steam, people make hobby engines out of small engines both two and four cycle. Weed wacker and mower, etc.

for the stirlings, most of what I've seen in my searches are basic designs for just model or decorative use. They probably would not last very long in production and look like they'd be inefficient. Probably best to build your own.

 

[Scout]

If you are simply wanting to go Rube Goldberg for a little gadget charging while hiking/camping, why not mount an alternator and a small (think motorcycle or lawn and garden) sealed maintenance-free battery on a platform which will fit in your backpack (albeit at the expense of taking up space you could use for other things) with a hand crank to spin the alternator at a favorable speed through gearing (roller chains are the most efficient form of transfer) and you can crank with one hand while holding your stick with the food with the other if the battery runs low enough not to charge your phone.

Head to a trailer supply shop and get a "breakaway" battery. They are sealed and about $20.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Small scale steam is one of the least viable methods for reliable power generation there is. Fine for a hobbyist, but it requires a very high degree of maintenance and upkeep and at the scales you are likely to achieve extremely inefficient. I'm not talking theory or "I heard" here, I am (or was) a professional in alternative energy systems design.

Everything he is saying is true ^^^^

Steam is a very maintenance intensive source of energy. It is also very, very inefficient on a small-scale.

You can get the same level of efficiency with solar panels and they are relatively maintenance free and don't require any fuel source to provide that energy (the sun is the fuel).

If you want slightly higher efficiency with less danger and maintenance I saw where I guy did a "reverse" of an air-conditioner compressor connected to his outdoor boiler. It was pretty neat. But still with his boiler cranking full output he was only getting about 1kw IIRC.

 

[Jackson]

Don't forget the safety considerations associated with hot, pressurized steam. I'm not familiar with the pressures and temperatures that come along with home steam set-ups. But many a boiler and/or steam pipe have experienced violent failures leading to injury. There are design and fabrication standards that should be followed for these kind of machines.

Just my thoughts.

 

[briand212]

Those little wood burning chargers use thermoemectric couplings. You can build your own stove, but the TECs are very fragile if care isnt taken. They're made of little semiconductors sandwiched between two very thin ceramic plates. Overclockers in the early 2000s used them to refridgerate they're CPUs.

I can honestly say I never thought to use one to produce energy .. I only used them for cooling.

I was one of those over clockers you speak of ,,

when i was building over clocked machines they were called peltiers and we used them to cool the cpu's ,
I had a homebuilt dual chip system that I sandwiched 3 pelter's on each cpu with a huge heat sink on top of the peltier's topped by a fan that sounded like an f-16 when it was running,, ( yes I was single back then)

from experience a couple of things
1 they work.. hands down
2 they are somewhat fragile and can be broken
3. They wear out... the harder you use them .. the faster they burn up.!!!
4 the cheap ones SUCK!!!