alternative energy solutions

[spectre327]

I am looking to become as independent of electricity companies as possible for my home. I have done a lot of research but always wind up in the dead end of threads talking of indefinite energy.

Can into help me identify an affordable, within reason, method of power generation using solar and battery bank(s)/generator that I can build myself.

Also can I get some help in understanding how much electricity I would realistically need to sustain a small home with few major appliances

 

[monitor51]

My wife and I did a lot of looking into solar a year or so ago. We found a couple companies that help you "work" the IRS tax credit for installing solar. Basically the deal was kind of like this according to their sites.

Before 12/31 of the year you entered a contract/sale of sorts. Long and the short was, you agree to purchase before 12/31 of the year. So now you can claim that on the taxes, was like an 8K credit that year. After you get your return, they come and install and you pay.

Shady? Not sure, didn't take it the next step of digging.

 

[spectre327]

My goal is to determine how much electricity an average home typically uses during the day and during the night.
Then determine the efficiency of solar panels
determine the cost of enough panels to generate electricity
Determine how much load I can safely extract from some sort of battery bank or generator
Determine how long it would take to recharge the bank during the day through sunlight.

I fully understand this is a major undertaking and this will most certainly not be cheap so please dont mash me up for thinking otherwise. This is a goal I want to work towards. Also I am not looking for tax credits, the government can give me money if they want for me being environmentally "safe", this is simply to lower my overall expenses each month and reduce dependence on power companies that control the longevity of my food and sustainability of my family.

I also considered this:

Solar power charges a bank of batteries (marine possibly?) ->
batteries run an electric motor ->
electric motor powers an electric generator ->
UPS (uninterrupted Power Supply) powers home

We aren't talking unlimited power, but say a similar course as the guy in florida who used his Prius to power his home through a UPS at about a gallon of gas a day.

 

[DougBarnes101]

You might check out Steven Harris' Site. He does a pretty good job of researching pieces and parts and telling you where you can buy them. He will tell you that he doesn't believe that solar is all that practical but he does understand that is a redundancy. His site is Solar1234.com and Battery1234.com. He has made many appearances on the Survial Podcast. Hope this helps.

 

[Grayscale]

Are you wanting an off grid or grid tie array? Have you measured how much energy the appliances consume? Are there any other loads (computers, pumps, etc) that will draw from the system?

 

[Meyer]

I think you should start with an appliance list and how much each consumes. Define the needs vs. wants. The big hitters are AC, clothes dryers and ovens. If you can do without those, it becomes more economical. You can tie that in with the math on solar panels and a battery bank. A key part of the calculation is how many cloudy days you could withstand. I hate to say this but I am not sure it makes financial sense to try to become completely independent, if that makes sense.

 

[shibumiseeker]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...reparedness/239340-solar-recommendations.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...paredness/259012-solar-gurus-i-need-help.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-preparedness/245415-diy-solar-generator.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...eparedness/199490-electricity-generation.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...solar-generator-vs-solar-system-invertor.html

Here are a few threads that contain some decent information on the subject. There are more out there on this site (as I've participated in dozens of them), but it is good enough to start with.

 

[Grayscale]

Another great resource is the discussion forum over at wind-sun.com. Very knowledgeable people and will be able to help answer most of your questions. But I agree with Meyer - make a list of the appliances you need to run and calculate how much power they consume. You can pick up a Kill A Watt meter for under $20 on Amazon.

With a 12V 300Ah battery bank powering a 30W load 24 hours per day (assuming minimum of 2.37 hours sun during December and average of 4.62 throughout the year), here are the charging rates I came up with:

• 300Ah * 14.4V AGM charging / 0.77 panel + controller derate * 0.05 rate of charge = 281W array minimum
• 300Ah * 14.4V AGM charging / 0.77 panel + controller derate * 0.10 rate of charge = 562W array nominal
• 300Ah * 14.4V AGM charging / 0.77 panel + controller derate * 0.13 rate of charge = 730W array effective
• 300Ah * 14.4V AGM charging / 0.77 panel + controller derate * 0.25 rate of charge = 1,403W array max

Of course, add ~40W to each above to account for the 30W (derated by 0.77) load.

The break even point with a 600W array would be 1.74 hours of sun each day (30W load * 24 hours / 0.77 derate / 0.90 AGM efficiency / 600W array).

Note the 30W load is what I calculated to run/charge some small electronic devices such as my phone, mobile HAM radio, and a few HTs. Appliances draw much more power.

Hopefully this gives you a good starting point for how to calculate the size of the array.

 

[spectre327]

thank you all. this is very good information.

and i am looking for off grid. grid tie in is a headache and can lead to trouble with the power companies regardless of if i am helping their supply lines

 

[CountryBoy19]

I also considered this:

Solar power charges a bank of batteries (marine possibly?) ->
batteries run an electric motor ->
electric motor powers an electric generator ->
UPS (uninterrupted Power Supply) powers home

I won't hit you too hard because you are asking here, but you stated that you've done lots of reading/research. Based upon that idea I don't think you have... just an observation. There are a lot of alternative energy sites/resources out there, keep reading and you'll get it figured out.

The cheapest way to get into AE is to change your power consumption habits. Cut out air-conditioning, wasteful appliances, incandescent lighting, electric heat-sources etc. Those main items will get you a LONG way to being energy independent.

To power the average US household will take a $30k+ investment on solar. You cut out the major stuff mentioned above and you will greatly reduce the size of system you need and therefore cost.

Also, I don't believe for a minute that anybody "powered their house for a day" on a single gallon of gas. There is ~33.7 Kw-hrs of energy in a gallon of gas. Figure ~35% efficiency of the IC gasoline engine, 90% efficiency of electricity generation, and 90% efficiency of the inverter to get it to the power form you need and you end up with and you have 9.5 kw-hrs. That's assuming best case scenario on everything involved. Now, look at your electricity bill, how many kw-hrs are you using per month? probably 1-2000 for an average home right now. That's 33-67 kw-hrs per day. You've got a lot of energy to cut out before you'll power your home for a day on a gallon of juice.

Not trying to bash you, just giving you perspective...

 

[spectre327]

No harsh with constructive criticism is definitely good.
I have a load of research but like I said it always leads to the dream of infinite energy, which at this point Is not fully possible because of a base of reference that interrupts current understandings of physics.

So, while that guy may have powered a house on a gallon or so of gas, he may also have conservatively reduced expenditure s in large drawing appliances on an as needed basis.

Your recommendation of cutting certain luxuries is already a necessity so I've kept that in mind. I chose solar because it is more or less readily available. However other sources is quite welcomed.

 

[CountryBoy19]

So, while that guy may have powered a house on a gallon or so of gas, he may also have conservatively reduced expenditure s in large drawing appliances on an as needed basis.

Exactly... I have no doubt that he made it through a 1 day outage on a gallon, but he didn't power his house. He probably powered his fridge, tv, and internet along with a couple other odds & ends...

Just in case you didn't pick up on my comment about your DC solar > DC motor > AC generator > power conditioner/UPS idea, that is a bad idea. There is such a device called an inverter. They are extremely common and the vast majority of AE systems use an invertor to convert DC to AC power... You can get true sine-wave inverters for clean power or you can get modified wave inverters for "dirty" power. Of course the latter is cheaper, but not necessarily better...

 

[spectre327]

I forgot about using an inverter. Thanks.

Essentially I could also run a Genny to an inverter right?

 

[Grayscale]

I forgot about using an inverter. Thanks.

Essentially I could also run a Genny to an inverter right?

I believe most portable generators are AC, so you would not need an inverter if you are only powering AC appliances.

 

[Dorky_D]

I second some of Steve Harris' info. He has a very non BS way of talking about stuff. You may or may not agree with it all, but at the same time, he is more of an expert than I will be. I have not implemented some of his suggestions, but I will be in the future.

 

[GMtoblat]

I was looking into this yesterday after seeing the interview with Elon Musk on TED. (same guy that created Tesla and Space X) he also has solar city, you basically lease the equipment, seems like much better customer service than current utility companies. Unfortunately only available on the east and west coasts as of now.

 

[spectre327]

Which is where we come in and make something new