American beliefs

[Cerberus]

We're a lot more densely populated than we were back then. We also knew a lot less about infectious disease, pollution, etc.. As we learned more about negative externalities of one another's behavior, and as the population grew, it was inevitable that we'd need some rules that went beyond don't steal, don't kill, and don't rape.

Did we manage to live by those 3 simple rules before adding others? If we can't live by 3 simple rules just the hell are we to live by 3 million complicated rules?

 

[Cerberus]

If I had a dollar for every 40+ year old telling me my generation sucks I'd have enough money to buy a house and retire in the economy they ruined.

Every generation has heard that. And don't throw stones just yet. I don't see any indications that your generation actually plans to try anything other than failed Marxist ideologies. I do see y'all falling for the crony capitalism term a lot.

 

[Lowe0]

Did we manage to live by those 3 simple rules before adding others? If we can't live by 3 simple rules just the hell are we to live by 3 million complicated rules?

Of course people managed to live by those. How else do you think we're still here? Most of us, being evolved from other species of social animals, have instincts not to do anything that cuts them off from the larger social group that serves as a mutual support structure. Some humans don't, while others, like their animal ancestors, decide that the benefits will be worth the social costs. We have laws to deal with those situations.

 

[MisterChester]

Every generation has heard that. And don't throw stones just yet. I don't see any indications that your generation actually plans to try anything other than failed Marxist ideologies. I do see y'all falling for the crony capitalism term a lot.

It can happen but I think it's a lower chance than the last one. They've seen first hand how crony capitalism screws the working man.

 

[Cerberus]

Crony capitalism can not exist. That is the great propaganda lie. What we have, is and has always been, merchantilism with LOTS of government interference for the past 100 years. My generation learned not to believe everything our radical parents said. You generation trusted their grandparents just a little too much. Be wary of anyone using class distinctions, their intentions are corrupt.

 

[MisterChester]

Crony capitalism can not exist. That is the great propaganda lie. What we have, is and has always been, merchantilism with LOTS of government interference for the past 100 years. My generation learned not to believe everything our radical parents said. You generation trusted their grandparents just a little too much. Be wary of anyone using class distinctions, their intentions are corrupt.

I'd trust the generation that fought the Nazis and brought us economic prosperity before I'd trust the one after any day. The middle class had so much going for them. There was enough prosperity to go around. There are and always will be class distinction in a capitalist society, it's unavoidable. Would you rather be communist and have no distinction? The reality is the middle class and working poor have it worse now than at any point since the Great Depression. To acknowledge this you get labeled an extremist? Be wary of people who refuse to acknowledge class distinctions, they might make a living by stealing from others or be communists.

 

[deal me in]

Let's face it, science and religion can and have coexisted for millennia, and even answer completely total aspects of our lives. Neither can prove or disprove the other and for either to try to do so is folly.

Nonsense, science has disproven religion many times. Disease doesn't come from demons or evil spirits. The universe doesn't revolve around the earth, and God didn't create man in our present form. Just a few examples from an extremely long list.

 

[Cerberus]

Nonsense, science has disproven religion many times. Disease doesn't come from demons or evil spirits. The universe doesn't revolve around the earth, and God didn't create man in our present form. Just a few examples from an extremely long list.

No it hasn't. Any scientist that says so is full of refuse.

 

[deal me in]

No it hasn't. Any scientist that says so is full of refuse.

Lol, ok then that settles it.

 

[Cerberus]

I'd trust the generation that fought the Nazis and brought us economic prosperity before I'd trust the one after any day. The middle class had so much going for them. There was enough prosperity to go around. There are and always will be class distinction in a capitalist society, it's unavoidable. Would you rather be communist and have no distinction? The reality is the middle class and working poor have it worse now than at any point since the Great Depression. To acknowledge this you get labeled an extremist? Be wary of people who refuse to acknowledge class distinctions, they might make a living by stealing from others or be communists.

They brought economic success in a world with hardly any intact manufacturing. Once hard working nations came back on line everything started heading south due to the socialized nature of what our industry had become. And just so you know, the middle class is not the working class. The middle class is the professional class, and reached it's zenith prior to Woodrow Wilson's presidency. And just how do all you young people, and some older folks as well, talk so expertly on Capitalism when it's only rarely existed for more than a few years, outside of personal transactions? Don't for a minute think that Communism had no distinctions, it was built around distinctions. Communism strives to destroy the social middle class, with only the many worker bees being controlled by the few Oligarchs. Don't take this personal but you are delusional if you think for a second that our working class and so called poor have it worse now than any time since the depression. I have a father that will gladly discuss that issue with you, since he grew up dirt poor during those mythical magic prosperous years, and my grandfather always worked, and worked hard.

 

[Cerberus]

Lol, ok then that settles it.

LOL, science is never settled.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Nonsense, science has disproven religion many times. Disease doesn't come from demons or evil spirits. The universe doesn't revolve around the earth, and God didn't create man in our present form. Just a few examples from an extremely long list.

Please note the critical distinction you made: Your statement is tantamount to saying that the ideas man attributed to God were faulty, not that the existence of God has been disproven.

 

[deal me in]

Please note the critical distinction you made: Your statement is tantamount to saying that the ideas man attributed to God were faulty, not that the existence of God has been disproven.

What else can I go by since God has never shared with us? All of god's ideas are attributed by man.

 

[deal me in]

I'll make it easier. Science cannot disprove the existence of God. It can, however, disprove the claims made by religious holy books and religious people.

 

[IndyDave1776]

What else can I go by since God has never shared with us? All of gods ideas are attributed by man.

I would make an argument regarding divine revelation, and then there is Christ.

 

[deal me in]

I would make an argument regarding divine revelation, and then there is Christ.

But Christ was a man. The only source we have that claims he was more than a man, comes from other men. Not familiar with divine revelation. Is that when people hear voices in their head and claim its God talking to them?

 

[Cerberus]

But Christ was a man. The only source we have that claims he was more than a man, comes from other men. Not familiar with divine revelation. Is that when people hear voices in their head and claim its God talking to them?

Jesus, Jeshua if you prefer, never wrote anything he said down, so everything about the man is from someone else. And Jesus himself said he was God, at least according to several authors. If we are to start throwing out eyewitness or other close primary accounts then we are in a whole heap of trouble as a society.

 

[ATM]

I'll make it easier. Science cannot disprove the existence of God.

True. God exists beyond the limitations of science or its methods. It's why atheism is considered a religious belief system, not a scientific one. Agnosticism is the starting point for anyone who admits that material facts and logic alone can neither prove nor disprove a creator.

It can, however, disprove the claims made by religious holy books and religious people.

Perhaps some, but certainly not the biblical account or the claims of Jesus. Many have failed (and often became believers in the attempt).

Still, the point of this thread is that the founders knew what they believed, they knew what Americans believed, and they set up a government system which would only work for all of them. It was never going to be suitable for modern, progressive, secularized America. Our ruling class has turned that government into The State.

 

[Cerberus]

^^^Well said ATM^^^