Ammo for Mossberg 500.

[Hookeye]

Shotgun slugs do make for big holes, especially if using foster slugs and a 12 gauge.

That might be a plus over a .44 cal bullet in some situations. BTW, they make reduced recoil foster rounds- your daughter might like shooting those

Just because some of us are slug gun fans, that doesn't mean we don't know how to shoot rifles. Nuking chucks at 250 and over used to be a common deal for an Indiana kid, back when we had chucks to nuke

FWIW my cuz hunts with his inlaws in upper Wis (rifle zone), and he took my old 870 (rifled bbl) one yr to get his first deer with it. He doesn't shoot past 150 even with a rifle in that area, is pretty conservative with any rig, and his inlaws thought he was nuts.

Range session made them believers, and he doesn't shoot that beast as good as I do.

It runs WW sabot stuff though, not fosters. But it's still a kick arse slug gun that HAMMERS them down.

Me? I want a Ruger #1 rebarreled for .35 Rem so I can trim necks. I love #1's and also like the .35 Rem cartridge (had one in a Contender). Alas I hate work and OT so probably won't get one this yr. However...........................I am building a kinda sorta one off 1100 magnum for geese and if I can find a rifle sighted deer bbl for a good price I might snag it just because, and blast a doe or two old school.

 

[jackadew]

Poor form, Mac, not to mention presuming facts not in evidence. I said I "choose" not to shoot a slug gun, because there are far better options available. Do you drive in finish nails with a sledge hammer, too? My 14 year-old daughter has killed two deer with a 44-40. I guess you think she'd be better off with a 12 gauge and slugs, right? Indeed it is sir. The op is probably soom young person that came to this forum to learn what he could shoot in his new Mossberg without harming it. I don't know why people can't just stick to answering the op question.

I'm secure enough in my manhood and my shooting ability that I have no need to prove anything. I'd bet a pound of powder I shoot better groups than you, with whatever type of long gun is used. LOL calling out a 17 year old.

Slug guns are incredibly inefficient tools for deer hunting and if you do much hunting outside of Indiana, that will become apparent to you very quickly. I grew up where 200 yards was a chip shot and twice that was what you prepared for at the shooting range. Three of my first 5 big game kills were at more than 250 yards. Have you shot a big game animal at 250 yards...ever? Uh huh, sure ya did.

All you have to do is look at this reloading forum and the almost complete lack of RIFLE threads to see how Indiana's rules have molded the way guys think about deer guns. How can you expect me to get excited about someone hitting a 12" metal plate at 150 yards when I'm shooting 3" groups at twice that distance? What you think you know is based on where you grew up and the guns you have always shot. That's fine, as long as you're OK with it.

As for me and a handful of other guys with a different perspective, we'll stick with guns that have greater range AND less recoil. Some folks would just call that being smart.

Very disrespectful to the op

 

[Broom_jm]

Well Jack, I was responding to a comment directed at me, not the OP's original question. I believe I responded to that in the first few posts.

As for using a 44-40 and introducing young people to the sport of deer hunting, I will put it to you plainly: If my daughter was forced to choose between shooting a 12 gauge slug gun or hanging out with her friends on opening weekend, where do YOU think she would be? Indiana has ridiculous rules on what guns/cartridges can be used for deer hunting...absurd by any measure. But, ask yourself WHY they started allowing PCR's? If you don't include "hunter recruitment" in your response, you're missing the big picture.

Since the regulations started to change, more and more folks are switching over from the monstrous recoil of a slug gun to a bunch of different options that give just as much range, with half the kick. As time goes on, you will see more and more of this, until the number of guys still shooting shotguns for deer is a minority. This is patently obvious to anyone who has hunted where rifles are legal. If you were free to choose between a slug gun and any rifle you wanted to use, would you STILL pick a shotgun?

If the OP took my comments as disrespectful, which I kinda doubt, based on what I offered originally, I do apologize. At the same time, I'm not backing down from the statement I made: From my perspective, it's smarter to shoot a gun with more range and less recoil. If a guy wanted to get into deer hunting in Indiana, and asked me what kind of gun to buy, a 12 gauge slug gun is the LAST THING I would tell him to get. If you feel differently, I can totally respect that.

 

[Hookeye]

Slug guns can suck recoil wise, but the big projectiles do put a lot of paint on the ground.

Q: If you wanted farther range and less recoil wouldn't the .357 max be a better choice than the .44-40?

 

[Hookeye]

Honestly, if one shoots a correctly fitted gun, with proper form, the recoil of a 12 gauge isn't nearly monstrous (standard slug loads-again they make reduced recoil ones nowadays).

At game the recoil is just an annoying sight mover

One can go with a pistol rug between recoil pad and shoulder and lessen thump from the bench, however some shots should be taken for final zero without such pampering.

IMHO most kids (and adults) are shooting cheap crap setups, in slug gun or other. That doesn't help.

I do think lesser recoil a reason many are going to the PCR, but I also think there's a HUGE novelty factor involved as well.

Note: some folks have gone back to the slug guns, after having poor experiences with smaller bullets. Heck on another forum one clown calls the .44 mag a 200 yard easy gun, "drops them all in their tracks". Yeah right.

.44's work, and I shoot hot reloads.........but they aint magic.

I'd feel zero handicap and probably an advantage, if running a foster slug machine within 75 yards. Rifled bore and sabots.......150 yard rig no question.

And no bolt or single shot. One advantage of a pump gun is followups.........should one need them.

I've missed one deer with a slug gun, just got so rattled I yanked the trigger with a crowbar (saw him off and on for about an hr in pine tree farm, finally offered a 50 yarder standing still, had to shoot fast off my tiptoes to clear a branch by my stand). The gun cycled itself and the next shot folded him.

I've taken several others on the run and it's downright fun First shot always good, but then some get extras (more fun)

Pump 12's do offer fun IMHO.

 

[Hookeye]

Oh yeah, my cuz that has my 870, he has that 760 in '06. Says that gun beats the crap out of him............and I bought one a few yrs back and thought it a *****cat.

Some folks are of different build and perception.

My old toolmaker bought a .300 winmag and was a varmint guy only before that. he went on and on about his big rifle...............and by the end of summer had determined that it was no big deal afterall. And he has neck problems so is more sensitive than maybe others.

One reason we might be going more as a group to PCR's...............Oprah and Dr Phil.

Seems as if everybody is turning into a wuss these days.

 

[Hookeye]

FWIW I have a .50 cal TC Hawken Silver Elite that has a crappy fitting stock for me.

Shoulder thump is one thing, cheek bashing another.

I've never had a slug gun clobber my cheek like my particular Hawken.

Proly the worst recoil gun I've shot in the last 20 yrs.......due to stock fit and where I get hit.

 

[Broom_jm]

Slug guns can suck recoil wise, but the big projectiles do put a lot of paint on the ground.

Q: If you wanted farther range and less recoil wouldn't the .357 max be a better choice than the .44-40?

Yes, 12-gauge holes do tend to leave nice blood trails, on the rare occasion one is needed. The more you reduce the recoil of a slug gun, like shooting a 20 gauge, more you reduce the effective range. There are trade-offs, just like everything else. The 357 MAX is a great option for Indiana deer hunting. Since I reload, I can make the 44-40 into a fun little plinker, with mild charges of Unique, or I can stoke it up to shoot almost as hot as a 44 Magnum. The loads my daughter hunts with are running ~1550fps from a 200gr XTP. They're plenty of gun out to 100 yards and since she's using open sights, that's far enough.

Oh yeah, my cuz that has my 870, he has that 760 in '06. Says that gun beats the crap out of him............and I bought one a few yrs back and thought it a *****cat.

Some folks are of different build and perception.

My old toolmaker bought a .300 winmag and was a varmint guy only before that. he went on and on about his big rifle...............and by the end of summer had determined that it was no big deal afterall. And he has neck problems so is more sensitive than maybe others.

One reason we might be going more as a group to PCR's...............Oprah and Dr Phil.

Seems as if everybody is turning into a wuss these days.

Perception has a great deal to do with recoil, as does the design of the stock and the recoil pad used. I've shot 30-30 rifles and 20 gauge shotguns that stung pretty good, due to a lousy stock design and hard metal/plastic recoil pad. The 44-40 my daughter shoots has a curved metal butt plate with no "pad" whatsoever. It doesn't bother her at all to shoot it because the gun fits her well and when she's hunting, she wears all the padding she needs to reduce the felt recoil.

You can try to make this about manliness if you like; God knows slug gun shooters like to thump their chest about it. The simple truth is that kids are the future of the sport. If we're going to get them started early enough that we can retain them as hunters, it means having options they can shoot without beating them back into the house and their video games. This isn't about wildcats and novelty cartridges, so much as it is about reasonable options for hunting a li'l ol deer. Look around the Midwest at all the places that have been slug gun or ML only for a long time...they're all adopting new regs to attract and retain hunters.

I apologize to the OP for this thread getting spun into something about more than just what barrel to use from his 500 and what shells to choose. If you decide you'd like an option that gives you 200 yard range and 30/30 recoil, send me a PM and I'll help get you set up with a more sensible deer gun.

 

[Hookeye]

FWIW my .44 mag 200gr JHP load is 28.8gr of WW296.
Never chrono'd it, but it seems warm

 

[Broom_jm]

FWIW my .44 mag 200gr JHP load is 28.8gr of WW296.
Never chrono'd it, but it seems warm

That is the universally published max load for that weight/style of bullet in the 44RM, so it's about as warm as you'd want to shoot. Run that from a nice little carbine, like a rebarreled '92, and you've got a nice 125 yard deer gun.

 

[Hookeye]

I dunno, just what my ammo box says from '98 (last time I loaded 200's).
My fave though is a 180 on 31.5gr of 296 (chucks or antlerless, it's my go to load).

FWIW my dad's '66 Ruger auto (sporter) is set up (and has been for 20+ yrs) for Norma 236gr HP factory. Pretty stiff bullet, it just whistles through on lung shots.

IMHO with the .44 being a low power short axis large frontal area bullet cartridge, I don't double lung anymore...........not unless a shoulder is taken out.
Small hunting grounds or being close to fences.........it keeps the deer on my side better

Do the same with shotguns and slugs.

I say let a person use whatever they want. if they put the shots where they're supposed to and the deer rides home in their truck..........well it's kinda hard to argue with success.

Using a slug gun does not mean one has less sense or is using a inefficient tool.

Again, dead is dead.

 

[Hookeye]

BTW, I thought Browning made 92's in .44 mag a ways back.
Not that I'd get one, what with the .44 auto available.

 

[Broom_jm]

... shotguns and slugs.

I say let a person use whatever they want. if they put the shots where they're supposed to and the deer rides home in their truck..........well it's kinda hard to argue with success.

Using a slug gun does not mean one has less sense or is using a inefficient tool.

Again, dead is dead.

If dead is dead, wouldn't the most efficient tool be the one that kills a deer quickly and humanely, with the least amount of powder, bullet weight, recoil and ammunition cost? Surely we can apply the rules of efficiency to the tool used to harvest deer, just like anything else?

The tendency of folks to take umbrage at something they are familiar with being questioned has always fascinated me. A percentage of the population will always be interested in something new and different, but most people, hunters especially, are quick to take offense whenever one of their preferred methods is scrutinized or threatened by a changing paradigm.

Slug guns, as sophisticated as they've become, are and always will be, the "club" of firearms technology. They are slow, heavy, cumbersome; limited in range and vicious in recoil, all other things being equal. Their only redeeming qualities are fairly inexpensive guns and rainbow-like trajectories that politicians have deemed "safe" in sparsely populated regions. They do kill things quite well, within their useful range, but given that there is but one degree of "dead", they certainly do not kill things "deaderer" than the smallest of centerfire rifle rounds.

If the only legal options for Indiana deer hunting were reverted back to the pre-PCR regulations, I would practice a bit more with my Contenders and leave the shoulder-dislocating to others. Hunting should be fun...and slug guns simply are NOT fun. And I end with the ubiquitous...IMHO.

 

[Hookeye]

By your logic.....

a Blackwidow custom recurve bow is a tool used by idiots

a Mathews Heli-M compound by morons

crossbows are the choice of Mensa


Slug guns may have substantial recoil but for some that is part of the fun, and for others it's no big deal. Contenders are friggin' LOUD, IMHO much louder than a slug gun. That alone could make them a BAD CHOICE (but I liked mine in .35 Rem

Let alone that EER scope stuff and trying to pick up a moving deer in timber.

Tell ya what. I'll get a smoothbore slug bbl for my 1100 this yr and blast a doe with it ..........................





wait for it.....................













for FUN!

 

[Hookeye]

FWIW for those who have slug guns, don't want to spend the $ on some new PCR rifle, want to keep "old faithful" in the field.......

a recoil pad change to a Sims or even Remington R3 pad can offer a bit softer hit.

They run 25-35 bucks IIRC.

I just put one on my 1100 and it's pretty comfy.

 

[Hookeye]

Some folks find higher levels of recoil to be tolerable, even fun.
I could shoot chucks with a .22-250, or for my spots now, just a .223.
But I like my .243
I don't see a slug gun as something terrible in recoil. I shoot guns that fit me though, and are properly set up.
I'm not ripping 3" mags from some H&R lightweight single shot.
I've used PCR, handguns, bows and MZ's.............I like variety, trying new and old things.
I don't see how using a slug gun makes one stupid.
IMHO it just makes them a slug gun user.

FWIW I've seen some real rubes buy PCR's.

IMHO judging people by the gun type they carry is kinda silly. Judging them by gun brand is OK though ..........as I hate Taurus

 

[Hookeye]

To get new folks into hunting, or keep old ones, it looks like the state offers sportsmen/women more choices.

That might be a good thing.

In the gun stuff I don't mind. The new archery regs I'm not wild about.



I'm not against progress, just don't care for progressives.

 

[Broom_jm]

I'm not against progress, just don't care for progressives.

And where, pray tell, does progress come from, if not from "progressives"?

Did you know you can append to previous messages by hitting the "Edit" button, instead of making 4 posts in a row?

So, there is this guy with a Mossberg 500 and he wants to know what slugs to use in his gun. Truth-be-told, he will need to try several, which will be expensive, to determine which one(s) match the ROT in his barrel. He will be subject to no small amount of recoil during his testing. Like many shooters, by the time he knows what loads shoot well from his particular gun, he very well may never want to shoot it again in his natural life span.

There's nothing wrong with slug guns and you're not "dumb" if you use one. There are certainly other options available that offer more range and less recoil, but those are just measures of performance, not suitability. Within the range for which they are effective...slugs are VERY effective. Given the weight, cost and recoil they bring to the table, one would hope they at least deliver on the terminal performance side.

 

[tjac04]

thanks churchmouse

 

[tjac04]

thanks bill b