....And He Won't Pardon Him Why?

[CMB69]

Essentially, the (single) guy who he was convicted with (who he didn't know), was also exonerated. He was given the choice to be let out immediately and keep the conviction, or stay in jail and fight the conviction. That guy fought, and won millions in a civil hearing. Cooper had a wife and kids, so after spending almost 20 years in prison, he wanted out immediately, so he took the conviction, stating that his family had been homeless on occasion, and he wanted out immediately to help out. Pence is denying the pardon, because he hasn't exhausted all his legal remedies. Apparently he wants him to go back to court.

You have answered your own question. I do not understand what you are puzzled about.

What bothers me is, how can a judge make such a deal? How could anyone, but especially a judge? How can such a deal be accepted by everyone? How can it be enforced? Seems to me that has to be a civil rights violation.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You have answered your own question. I do not understand what you are puzzled about.

What bothers me is, how can a judge make such a deal? How could anyone, but especially a judge? How can such a deal be accepted by everyone? How can it be enforced? Seems to me that has to be a civil rights violation.

You don't find it puzzling an innocent man has a felony, and the person with the ability to pardon him (and who has pardoned others) won't do so?

 

[oldpink]

You don't find it puzzling an innocent man has a felony, and the person with the ability to pardon him (and who has pardoned others) won't do so?

Actually, I believe his point was that, to all of us outside the legal profession, it is incomprehensible that a pardon would even be necessary at all in a situation of a man's wrongful conviction with incontrovertible proof of said man's innocence.
It is unconscionable that the legal system would demand that a man they knew damn well was in prison for a crime he didn't commit be forced to make a Faustian Bargain of choosing to either remain in prison pending a retrial to get his conviction formally overturned, or make what sure sounds like letting that same legal system that wrongfully convicted him off the hook while keeping his conviction on his record to get released so that he can be a father and husband for his family after a forced twenty plus year absence.
Why the system is not required by law to immediately release anyone proven innocent and reverse his conviction with the court's deepest apologies is the sort of thing that makes ordinary people lose faith in the entire system.
It's as if basic common sense and right and wrong are being subverted in favor of an irrational fealty to the law as written.
This isn't justice; this is medieval.

Mike Dukakis begs to differ. Strenuously. Executives very seldom issue pardons precisely because of the political penalties for if anything goes wrong.

Mark Rich pardon, anyone?
...that is, assuming that many people even remember that particular bit of corruption, with no actual consequences for a flagrant case of a pardon for bribes.

 

[jbombelli]

I'm confused. The guy made his choice - he took the conviction knowing he was innocent. That's not Pence's fault. He could have gone with a new trial, and seeing as the prosecutor wants him pardoned it isn't likely he'd lose. He just wanted out NOW. I get that but he made the choice. Now let him exhaust the legal remedies he still has.

 

[Fargo]

You have answered your own question. I do not understand what you are puzzled about.

What bothers me is, how can a judge make such a deal? How could anyone, but especially a judge? How can such a deal be accepted by everyone? How can it be enforced? Seems to me that has to be a civil rights violation.

Like I said above, there is much more to this story than what is being reported here. There is no way he ended up with those two options without a whole bunch of information being omitted. Usually, it means that the prosecutor wants to retry the case but I don't know if that was the case here. What I am quite certain of is that there is a Paul Harvey.

 

[Fargo]

Mark Rich pardon, anyone?
...that is, assuming that many people even remember that particular bit of corruption, with no actual consequences for a flagrant case of a pardon for bribes.

Even slick Willy came to the conclusion that the hit his reputation took on that wasn't worth it.

Rich's ex-wife, Denise, had donated funds for Clinton's presidential library. The former president later said the donation was not a factor in his decision and he had acted partly in response to a request from Israel. He regretted granting the pardon, calling it "terrible politics."
"It wasn't worth the damage to my reputation," he told Newsweek magazine in 2002.

We the people have plenty of power to punish abuse of the pardon process, it's no one's fault but our own if we are too lazy/apathetic to do it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm confused. The guy made his choice - he took the conviction knowing he was innocent. That's not Pence's fault. He could have gone with a new trial, and seeing as the prosecutor wants him pardoned it isn't likely he'd lose. He just wanted out NOW. I get that but he made the choice. Now let him exhaust the legal remedies he still has.

Wouldn't you want out now? He was projected to spend at least another 2 years in prison while the trial took place. I believe the prosecutor who tried him originally wouldn't be there. Why would a person, in prison, for a crime he didn't commit, be inclined to give the same system a chance with a new trial. I think that at the point you hear that you're guilty, knowing youre not, the legal justice system loses credibility with you.

 

[churchmouse]

Even slick Willy came to the conclusion that the hit his reputation took on that wasn't worth it.



We the people have plenty of power to punish abuse of the pardon process, it's no one's fault but our own if we are too lazy/apathetic to do it.

This is another reason the system is in it's present state......."We the people"

 

[jbombelli]

Wouldn't you want out now? He was projected to spend at least another 2 years in prison while the trial took place. I believe the prosecutor who tried him originally wouldn't be there. Why would a person, in prison, for a crime he didn't commit, be inclined to give the same system a chance with a new trial. I think that at the point you hear that you're guilty, knowing youre not, the legal justice system loses credibility with you.

That's why I said I get that. I'd want out too. Personally I'd rather have the conviction gone from my record rather than a conviction and a pardon. But maybe that's just me.

 

[amboy49]

Wouldn't you want out now? He was projected to spend at least another 2 years in prison while the trial took place. I believe the prosecutor who tried him originally wouldn't be there. Why would a person, in prison, for a crime he didn't commit, be inclined to give the same system a chance with a new trial. I think that at the point you hear that you're guilty, knowing youre not, the legal justice system loses credibility with you.

This assumes the man wouldn't be let out of prison while awaiting trial. Either on his OR or with some minimal bail (?). I would also assume the man could have found an attorney to represent him with the promise said attorney could also cash in on a lawsuit against the state.

I think criticizing Pence is a backhanded attempt at a negative political statement.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This assumes the man wouldn't be let out of prison while awaiting trial. Either on his OR or with some minimal bail (?). I would also assume the man could have found an attorney to represent him with the promise said attorney could also cash in on a lawsuit against the state.

I think criticizing Pence is a backhanded attempt at a negative political statement.

That wasn't assumed. He would've stayed in prison. The guy he was arrested with, who asked for another trial did stay incarcerated. It's not backhanded, it's undoubtedly a negative reflection on Pence.

 

[Fargo]

That wasn't assumed. He would've stayed in prison. The guy he was arrested with, who asked for another trial did stay incarcerated. It's not backhanded, it's undoubtedly a negative reflection on Pence.

Do you or anyone else here have a CCS or other chronological record of these two cases as I am fairly confident that there are some big things missing and/or being misreported on this. I doubt those things change my opinion on the case, but it would be helpful to avoid us all talking past each other.

 

[Fargo]

Ok, here is the CCS. https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...XWTJNVFF3TmpFMU1qQXhPakV3TURreE1qRXhOR0U9In19

It it look like he had a PCR pending but for reasons unknown withdrew it after he was modified out of custody. It looks like 10 years later he may be trying again, but once again I don't know why he abandoned it in the first place. I was under the impression that pcr right are non-waivable so I am unclear why it has been sat on for a decade.

Cant find the codefendants ccs, it may have been expunged.

 

[amboy49]

That wasn't assumed. He would've stayed in prison. The guy he was arrested with, who asked for another trial did stay incarcerated. It's not backhanded, it's undoubtedly a negative reflection on Pence.

Based on your statement, why didn't you just title the thread " I don't like Pence so I'm going to post something he didn't do" ? Would have been more truthful.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Based on your statement, why didn't you just title the thread " I don't like Pence so I'm going to post something he didn't do" ? Would have been more truthful.

The same reason you didn't post "I like Pence, and him ignoring the plea from an innocent man is fine by me, because I like seeing innocent people deprived of their rights."

 

[mrjarrell]

The case is getting more crappy. From Change.org and the people keeping track of the progress of the case.

Keith Cooper's lawyer has now heard from the Elkhart County Prosecutor's Office. Vicki Elaine Becker, on behalf of the office of Curtis Hill, has responded to Keith Cooper's petition for post-conviction relief via a new trial. The prosecutor's office is formally opposing post-conviction relief on the basis that Cooper accepted the sentence modification in 2006 (which included keeping his conviction on his record).

https://www.change.org/p/indiana-governor-pardon-an-innocent-man

 

[Kutnupe14]

The case is getting more crappy. From Change.org and the people keeping track of the progress of the case.


https://www.change.org/p/indiana-governor-pardon-an-innocent-man

you can't get more screwed in the head than that.

 

[Nazgul]

Not sure about Pence for a couple of reasons.

My wife is a teacher, they screwed them to fix a problem that did not exist. At least our school district was a very good one. No pay raises for 7 years, come on.

I am a conservative. listening to my wife, a teacher for 33 years talk about the last 2 and the worthless changes to our school system is unnerving.

Don

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not sure about Pence for a couple of reasons.

My wife is a teacher, they screwed them to fix a problem that did not exist. At least our school district was a very good one. No pay raises for 7 years, come on.

I am a conservative. listening to my wife, a teacher for 33 years talk about the last 2 and the worthless changes to our school system is unnerving.

Don

He's from Columbus, he's bound to be odd.