Another church shooting

[tskin]

Since there are a lot of discussions on here about whether or not it's legal to carry in a church, and why you would ever do so - here's a little reminder. I'm a firm believer that "Concealed means concealed."

Teens shot during California church service - CNN.com

 

[jesse485]

Ordinarily, I would, but my church has a school during the week. I'm pretty sure this means it is illegal to carry there, even though there is no weekend school.

 

[Doug]

Yes, if there is a school, nursery school, or day care, anywhere in the building, firearms carry is not allowed under Indiana law.

I believe Life Act by Kimber or similar pepper product is legal.


Doug

 

[SKSnut]

thats sad. You would think that would be the last place you would get shot. Apparantly so does the psycho killer.

 

[Doug]

Because of the prevalence of day care and nursery schools in churches, most of them are "gun free zones."
Gun free zones attract mass murderers because there is no one to stop their carnage by shooting back.
There are no mass shootings at trap ranges or police stations.

Doug

 

[finity]

Yes, if there is a school, nursery school, or day care, anywhere in the building, firearms carry is not allowed under Indiana law.

Unless you have permission from the church/school leaders.

 

[Doug]

I'm not certain permission is enough. I believe the law states the firearms must be part of the teaching program or the person carrying must be authorized to function as a security officer.

Doug

 

[finity]

I'm not certain permission is enough. I believe the law states the firearms must be part of the teaching program or the person carrying must be authorized to function as a security officer.

Doug

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

If you read the above highlighted parts, it says the school can give permission to carry while engaged in any activity, not just a teaching activity.

 

[redneckmedic]

I just learned today that the church I go to, has three personal:

1. one at the door (armed)
2. one at the hallway with the nursery and daycare (armed)
3. and an off-duty sheriff by the "Money Box" (armed)
   

 

[Bill of Rights]

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

If you read the above highlighted parts, it says the school can give permission to carry while engaged in any activity, not just a teaching activity.

I ran this same text by an attorney (who admittedly, was offering his opinion without compensation) and was told that despite the semicolon, this referred specifically to a person employed by the owner of a property used by a school for a school function.

In other words, despite the letter of the law, the courts would rule against you to avoid setting precedent to invalidate the zone free of legal guns, aka "victim disarmament zone".

IANAL, proceed at your own risk.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[bigiron]

Yes, if there is a school, nursery school, or day care, anywhere in the building, firearms carry is not allowed under Indiana law.

I believe Life Act by Kimber or similar pepper product is legal.


Doug

how bout that fancy gett-up you're wearing in your avatar......is that legal to wear in church? that would be enought to scare me to death!

 

[bigiron]

i carried today, concealed, and so should anyone else who is qualified to carry. just cause you're in the LORD's house doesn't always mean the forces of evil cannot attack. stay vigilant and prepared, the worlds a dangerous place!

 

[Manan]

Sad, but this happened in a state that already makes it very difficult to protect yourself. In fact, this happened near Berkley. The home of socialist liberalism on the west coast.

 

[Tactical Dave]

My church has bible class but I don't think that then will classify it as a school.

The last church I was a member at I later found out there was an older lady who carried in her purse.

The way I look at it is this.... if someone comes in and start's shooting chances are people will panic and be runing all over..... how many people with their adrenaline pumping could make accurate shot's and not hit someone else also? This is why I like tactical shooting classes because a lot of them help prepare you for this.

Personally I don't think I could carry at church..... I don't think I would feel right..... not to mention being up front leading a prayer or something with a gun on me...

I am the first to tell you that I am rather paranoid about home defense but at church it is different. Now on the other hand I do know one preacher that keep's a gun locked up in his officer and carries one when he is there working during non worship hour's.. nothing wrong with that and I would do the same.

i carried today, concealed, and so should anyone else who is qualified to carry. just cause you're in the LORD's house doesn't always mean the forces of evil cannot attack. stay vigilant and prepared, the worlds a dangerous place!

Agreed but I would have a problem concentrating on my worship when I have a gun on me and am worried about someone coming in and shooting........ right now it does not cross my ming when I am in church...

 

[bigiron]

My church has bible class but I don't think that then will classify it as a school.

The last church I was a member at I later found out there was an older lady who carried in her purse.

The way I look at it is this.... if someone comes in and start's shooting chances are people will panic and be runing all over..... how many people with their adrenaline pumping could make accurate shot's and not hit someone else also? This is why I like tactical shooting classes because a lot of them help prepare you for this.

Personally I don't think I could carry at church..... I don't think I would feel right..... not to mention being up front leading a prayer or something with a gun on me...

I am the first to tell you that I am rather paranoid about home defense but at church it is different. Now on the other hand I do know one preacher that keep's a gun locked up in his officer and carries one when he is there working during non worship hour's.. nothing wrong with that and I would do the same.




Agreed but I would have a problem concentrating on my worship when I have a gun on me and am worried about someone coming in and shooting........ right now it does not cross my ming when I am in church...

well, i guess i don't have a problem concentrating while carrying. i agree with your point listed above that in that "fire in the movie theatre" moment its every man for himself but yeah, we all have to be aware, comfortable and most of all prepared for that moment where ever it may occur (hopefully NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!) now, carrying a firearm is a responsibility not to be taken lightly but also not something i think some one should dwell on. i carried to dinner last night with my wife and had a fantastic steak at one of my favorite local places. did my 1911 hinder my experience at the restaurant? absolutely not, i am comfortable carrying my weapon anywhere. i guess i just don't understand why carrying your firearm would distract you from your surroundings or experiences. every time i have left my house unarmed i have felt incomplete. my wife says i'm paranoid and crazy but i just feel MORE comfortable with my firearm. i don't know of your "tactical" experience but i would suggest some reading about situational awareness to help set your mind at ease while carrying at places you don't feel comfortable. best wishes!

 

[redneckmedic]

I would have a problem concentrating on my worship when I have a gun on me and am worried about someone coming in and shooting........ right now it does not cross my ming when I am in church...

Really?

I guess that is just unusual to me, as my morning routines is wallet, watch, glock. I think no less about my personal safety at Calvary than I do at the crosswalk. Do you carry as a regular habit, maybe thats a place to start.

 

[Doug]

Tactical Dave:
I wouldn't have a problem carrying at church because it is so rare for me NOT to carry. Its just that my church has a Nursery School and its illegal.

bigiron:
I confess that's not me in my avatar; its Sean Connery. HOWEVER, while that outfit may not be illegal, it probably SHOULD be!

Doug

 

[LLDJR]

As I have mentioned before, we have no licensed day care,, so there are a minimum of 10 guys throughout our Church with all types of concealed pistols,

Me carries a PM40

 

[Tactical Dave]

I guess more or less I would feel uncomfortable knowing God was looking down on me and could see me carying when I was worshiping him......... I asked my wife about her thought's and she did not seem to have much of a problem wit it. I will put some thought into it.

I did attend a church for a little while that is not far from Keystone Rd exit and 65....... not a good area....... I would be more inclined then just because the area spookes me.

 

[finity]

I ran this same text by an attorney (who admittedly, was offering his opinion without compensation) and was told that despite the semicolon, this referred specifically to a person employed by the owner of a property used by a school for a school function.

In other words, despite the letter of the law, the courts would rule against you to avoid setting precedent to invalidate the zone free of legal guns, aka "victim disarmament zone".

IANAL, proceed at your own risk.

Blessings,
Bill

Sorry, that makes no sense.

If you remove the semi-colon & combine the two parts into one then you end up with:

(2)A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

IOW,

A person who has been authorized by a school. Period.

or

Another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school. Period.

The first covers anybody "the school" gives permission to for any reason.

The second says anybody that is authhorized by the owner of the property as long as they participate in ANY activity that is authorized by the school.

Either way you read (with or without the semi-colon) it you can be granted permission to carry by someone in charge at the school or the land owner as long as you're there to participate. I'd say that going to church is normally a participatory activity. I haven't been in a REEAALLLY long time but that's what I kind of remember & understand.

Could you be arrested & charged? You can be arrested for anything. Will you be convicted? Depends on the judge/jury. Just like any other time you get arrested for that anything I just mentioned.