Another Down side to Red Flag Laws

[JettaKnight]

I have a big problem with the no due process issue.
Fifth Amendment:
"No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law..."

I think we all do, but fortunately, there is due process when it comes to Jake Laird Law.

 

[Morgan88]

How much potential is there for this to be used for retailiation or ruin someones reputation and more? Maybe if it's always used with the highest moral standards and integrity. I'm skeptical.

 

[JettaKnight]

How much potential is there for this to be used for retailiation or ruin someones reputation and more? Maybe if it's always used with the highest moral standards and integrity. I'm skeptical.

There's some suspicion that it has been done in Maryland, but no evidence of that being the case here in Indiana, despite the FUD on gun forums.

 

[bwframe]

What's the likelihood that we'd readily hear of mistaken red flags here in Indiana? In a timely fashion anyway?

The one thing we do know is that often law enforcement is quick to run to the press to release that they have confiscated "an arsenal."

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What's the likelihood that we'd readily hear of mistaken red flags here in Indiana? In a timely fashion anyway?

The one thing we do know is that often law enforcement is quick to run to the press to release that they have confiscated "an arsenal."

Yeah...anecdotally, all we know are they've only been for the good.

 

[bwframe]

I have a big problem with the no due process issue.
Fifth Amendment:
"No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law..."

I think we all do, but fortunately, there is due process when it comes to Jake Laird Law.

Is this truly due process? IANAL, but this is not my interpretation of what due process is...

https://readthereporter.com/brooks-others-reintroduce-gun-violence-reduction-bill/

...The Jake Laird Act of 2019 respects constitutional Second Amendment protections for law-abiding gun owners and provides for due process by guaranteeing a day in court within 21 days. If the court rules that the individual is not a danger to self or others, his or her firearms will be swiftly returned...

 

[KellyinAvon]

Is this truly due process? IANAL, but this is not my interpretation of what due process is...

https://readthereporter.com/brooks-others-reintroduce-gun-violence-reduction-bill/

...The Jake Laird Act of 2019 respects constitutional Second Amendment protections for law-abiding gun owners and provides for due process by guaranteeing a day in court within 21 days. If the court rules that the individual is not a danger to self or others, his or her firearms will be swiftly returned...

It's been on the books since 2005, it wasn't called the Jake Laird Act of 2019, 21 days?

 

[bwframe]

I have a big problem with the no due process issue.
Fifth Amendment:
"No person shall be...deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law..."

It's been on the books since 2005, it wasn't called the Jake Laird Act of 2019, 21 days?

From the linked article, about Susan Brooks proposed federal law:

...The Jake Laird Act of 2019 provides grants to states that enact laws substantially similar to Indiana’s Jake Laird Law. This grant funding will equip police officers with training and additional resources needed to deescalate life-threatening crisis situations and prevent future potentially deadly events from occurring in the first place. Since 2005, Indiana’s Jake Laird Law has been used over 700 times in Indianapolis alone...

 

[dan45]

i think it's a little more complicated than that. from what i understand, i don't think it's so bad of a law.

 

[bwframe]

Is a guaranteed 21 day court date AFTER your firearms have been confiscated still actually due process?

 

[KellyinAvon]

From the linked article, about Susan Brooks proposed federal law:

...The Jake Laird Act of 2019 provides grants to states that enact laws substantially similar to Indiana’s Jake Laird Law. This grant funding will equip police officers with training and additional resources needed to deescalate life-threatening crisis situations and prevent future potentially deadly events from occurring in the first place. Since 2005, Indiana’s Jake Laird Law has been used over 700 times in Indianapolis alone...

I see says the blind man. This is not Indiana's law, it's a federal goat-rope with a lot of RINOs and anti's tagging along.

The chances of feds enforcing this seems like somewhere between slim and none (exhibit A: how many prohibited possessors getting 10 year prison sentences?) My fear is this crap (21 days? I agree BW) will be forced on states to adopt at the threat of withholding highway funding or something.

 

[thunderchicken]

I'm still on the fence leaning toward being against Red Flag laws. I see too much potential for it to be abused by false complaints. To some degree reminds me of how easy it is for someone to call in a domestic dispute just to stir the pot.
I also think in the event of being subject to any red flag law, it should be required that your property (guns) should be stored individually boxed, and maybe even photographed to prevent someones guns from being damaged while in the hands of a LE agency. Heard stories of long guns just crammed into a 55g drums with no regard to damage that maybe caused...how accurate that is Idk for sure. And once someone is cleared and able to get their guns back it should be immediate, no BS wait for court and detective to sign release forms and wait for property room to process paperwork etc.

Now, I can appreciate the intent of these laws but not so sure about them

 

[russc2542]

I'm still on the fence leaning toward being against Red Flag laws. I see too much potential for it to be abused by false complaints. To some degree reminds me of how easy it is for someone to call in a domestic dispute just to stir the pot.
I also think in the event of being subject to any red flag law, it should be required that your property (guns) should be stored individually boxed, and maybe even photographed to prevent someones guns from being damaged while in the hands of a LE agency. Heard stories of long guns just crammed into a 55g drums with no regard to damage that maybe caused...how accurate that is Idk for sure. And once someone is cleared and able to get their guns back it should be immediate, no BS wait for court and detective to sign release forms and wait for property room to process paperwork etc.

Now, I can appreciate the intent of these laws but not so sure about them

I agree that the intent, in a perfect moral world free of abuse, is good. However any world perfect enough to be free from humanities faults of misusing the laws is also perfect enough to not need them. Much like many laws: the intent is fine then the politicians start to work on them. lol

 

[DadSmith]

In a free society we have to put up with terrorism, mass shootings, and other criminal activity. The only alternative is a totalitarian police state and even then you still cannot stop terrorism and other criminal activity. So why lose freedom?

 

[bwframe]

I don't believe anyone wants guns in the hands of mentally dangerous people, so to the idea of red flag laws are solid.

The problem is when the red flag law bypasses due process.

Sending officers to make decisions that judges and doctors should be making is problematic. The officer could (and should?) err on the side of caution.

Our fine officers should not be put in this position. Professionals in law and mental health should be signing off on warrants to begin red flag investigations.

There needs to be a specific criteria for red flag law implimentation. One that has accountability.

 

[pgt892]

I agree that the intent is all well and good but in practice this could be similar to a domestic violence type call with someone calling in out of anger/spite.