Another police shooting in MN

[Kutnupe14]

So, you think he made that up after the fact? Or, is there no gray area between "THAT'S OUR GUY!" and "He looks similar to the robbery suspect... let's see if he violates so we can pull him over."?

You don't need a stopping charge to pull someone over who you think is a robbery suspect, if you can back up that belief, so why wait for the violation?

There is ample testimony that Mr. Castile's gun was in his front, right pocket. If his wallet was in his right, rear pocket, how would the motion to retrieve his wallet be different than the motion to retrieve his gun? (note: I genuinely believe he was trying to get his wallet and license out, NOT his gun)

That wasn't what I was talking about. Yanez says he saw Castile's hand, and that he cupped his hand like the letter "C" as if he were grabbing a gun.


The only other case in my recent memory was in Baton Rouge, were the suspect was both fighting with the police AND going for the gun in his pocket... I.e. a "good shoot" regardless of race. Am I missing some others in the past few years?

Well if you're speaking of black guy + gun = scared officer, I could have just as easily eliminated the "gun" and the equation would still hold true, IMO.

*

 

[SheepDog4Life]

You don't need a stopping charge to pull someone over who you think is a robbery suspect, if you can back up that belief, so why wait for the violation?

Because if the suspect is black, AND NOT THE ROBBER, then you face the prospect of being grilled to the nth degree, labeled a racist and drummed out of your job. Better to have a legit reason for the stop, and if your hunch plays out, then it's just icing on the cake. It's called [STRIKE]"white privilege"[/STRIKE] CYA.

That wasn't what I was talking about. Yanez says he saw Castile's hand, and that he cupped his hand like the letter "C" as if he were grabbing a gun.

Ok, you're changing the subject slightly from the entirety of "reaching for something like he was reaching for a gun", the whole lifting up/foward off the car seat and reaching to the right side... but that's ok. I just pulled my wallet out of my back pocket, and my hand was in a very similar "C" grip for the thumb to slide to the inside of the wallet and the fingers to slide to the outside of the wallet... though I do have a "fat" wallet... not cash, I need to toss all those receipt papers, lol!

So, again, what would be different?

Well if you're speaking of black guy + gun = scared officer, I could have just as easily eliminated the "gun" and the equation would still hold true, IMO.

Subtract the gun and we're talking unarmed, which I am VERY concerned about, regardless of race, or the knife in the Chicago McDonald case... that cop is going to prison, and rightly so. Murder 2 or voluntary manslaughter.

 

[jamil]

There is ample testimony that Mr. Castile's gun was in his front, right pocket. If his wallet was in his right, rear pocket, how would the motion to retrieve his wallet be different than the motion to retrieve his gun? (note: I genuinely believe he was trying to get his wallet and license out, NOT his gun)

As I recall, from one of the transcripts of Yanez's interviews, wasn't Castile reaching his hand along his right thigh towards the center console? If that's the case he was not reaching for the same place his firearm was.

 

[Kutnupe14]

As I recall, from one of the transcripts of Yanez's interviews, wasn't Castile reaching his hand along his right thigh towards the center console? If that's the case he was not reaching for the same place his firearm was.

Yeah, and he turned or canted his body in doing so, obscuring the officers view. I'm not sure how the officer even saw his hand, and it should be noted that Castile never said exactly where his gun was.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

As I recall, from one of the transcripts of Yanez's interviews, wasn't Castile reaching his hand along his right thigh towards the center console? If that's the case he was not reaching for the same place his firearm was.

The reports I read said right thigh BETWEEN his thigh and the center console... I.e. an appearance of EITHER reaching for his right front (gun) or right rear (wallet) pocket.

Yeah, and he turned or canted his body in doing so, obscuring the officers view. I'm not sure how the officer even saw his hand, and it should be noted that Castile never said exactly where his gun was.

When I dry run this, I get a different view... lifting the right buttock higher than the left cants the body towards the driver's side window, giving Yanez a better, not obscured, view of the right pocket which is where he said he saw part of the gun protruding. Presumably reaching for his wallet, Mr. Castile's right hand would be out of view.

The not asking AND not telling where the gun was located was, IMO, the fatal mistake. On the part of both Yanez and Castille. The sudden appearance of the gun very near where Castile was reaching led to the instant panic on Yanez' part.

For example, if I get pulled over and after handing over my license and LTCH, I'm going to tell the officer(s) I have a back up gun in the glove compartment before getting my registration and insurance card out.*** A gun unexpectedly popping into view in the general area where you are reaching for something is the making of a very bad day for all involved.

*** Shortly after this shooting, I move my papers to the visor to specifically avoid such a scenario when I have a backup in the glove box.

 

[Alpo]

Just wondering:

If you have your license, insurance and registration on your phone in a folder, is that adequate for law enforcement in today's electronic age? I wouldn't be worried about what else is on my phone (no embarrassing data or jpg's etc).