Another "victimless crime"

[Woobie]

Heroin exports went up after we invaded Afghanistan. It did not go down even 1%. The taliban increased production to fund their war effort and the western power did nothing to eradicate poppy crops aside from a token effort in the beginning. 85% of the worlds heroin comes from the afghan region.

Why Britain's pledge to end Afghanistan's deadly heroin trade has failed - Telegraph

How do you reconcile an increase in exports with a 12,000% increase in seizures?

Forbes Welcome

But if you can make that work, then it doesn't bode well for your argument that border security will fix this.

 

[Ceruleanblue]

How do you reconcile an increase in exports with a 12,000% increase in seizures?

Forbes Welcome

But if you can make that work, then it doesn't bode well for your argument that border security will fix this.

The 12,000% increase that you reference from the poorly written biased article that nowhere states any supporting evidence for that claim does not actually reconcile with real world production values or seizure totals. The author of that article is a pro drug use liberal author who deals in opinion and not facts. Here is his bio:

I am a senior editor at Reason magazine and a nationally syndicated columnist. I am the author of Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use (Tarcher/Penguin) and For Your Own Good: The Anti-Smoking Crusade and the Tyranny of Public Health (Free Press). My work on drug policy and civil liberties has appeared in Cigar Aficionado, Seed, National Review, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, and many other publications.




In fact Official United States DEA documents state that only 4% of USA seized opium/ heroin has an afghan origin. The bulk of it is from South American poppy fields and further bolster my arguments for a secure border. All heroin and opium and cocaine in this country originates outside our borders. Strong borders include ports/air terminals. The bulk of foreign container imports are never inspected because of a shortage of manpower. As I suggested earlier, the money we borrow at interest then give away to foreign countries could be spent here to fund our secure border initiative. The current rise in heroin use in this country is directly tied to the "bridging" nature of the prescription opioid epidemic raging in our country. Our borders and ports remain unsecured.

Below is pictured biased pro drug liberal "author" Jacob Sullum, who deals in opinion and unsubstantiated claims and not facts.

 

[Woobie]

The 12,000 increase that you reference from the poorly written biased article that nowhere states any supporting evidence for that claim does not actually reconcile with real world production values or seizure totals. The author of that article is a pro drug use liberal author who deals in opinion and not facts. Here is his bio:

I am a senior editor at Reason magazine and a nationally syndicated columnist. I am the author of Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use (Tarcher/Penguin) and For Your Own Good: The Anti-Smoking Crusade and the Tyranny of Public Health (Free Press). My work on drug policy and civil liberties has appeared in Cigar Aficionado, Seed, National Review, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, and many other publications.


In fact Official United States DEA documents state that only 4% of USA seized opium/ heroin has an afghan origin. The bulk of it is from South American poppy fields and further bolster my arguments for a secure border. All heroin and opium and cocaine in this country originates outside our borders. Strong borders include ports/air terminals. The bulk of foreign container imports are never inspected because of a shortage of manpower. As I suggested earlier, the money we borrow at interest then give away to foreign countries could be spent here to fund our secure border initiative. The rise in heroin use in this country is directly tied to the "bridging" nature of the prescription opioid epidemic raging in our country

Then border patrol is seizing what they want to seize. 90% of raw heroin in the world comes from Afghanistan. But if that were not the case, the fact that the South Americans and others are getting into the poppy market is evidence that trying to control the supply, even at the source, is just an expensive game of whack-a-mole.

That Telegraph article you quoted wasn't at all beneficial to your position, if you read it. And you can call the author of the Forbes article biased, or you can refute his statistics. It's easier to just call names, I guess.

I have no problem with reducing our foreign aid. Nor do I have a problem using it to secure our borders. But I do have a problem with what we are restricting at the border. But this war on drugs is lunacy. You either need to round up the users and execute them, a la Thailand, or stop lining the pockets of murderers. What we are doing is the worst of both worlds.

 

[Ceruleanblue]

Then border patrol is seizing what they want to seize. 90% of raw heroin in the world comes from Afghanistan. But if that were not the case, the fact that the South Americans and others are getting into the poppy market is evidence that trying to control the supply, even at the source, is just an expensive game of whack-a-mole.

That Telegraph article you quoted wasn't at all beneficial to your position, if you read it. And you can call the author of the Forbes article biased, or you can refute his statistics. It's easier to just call names, I guess.

I have no problem with reducing our foreign aid. Nor do I have a problem using it to secure our borders. But I do have a problem with what we are restricting at the border. But this war on drugs is lunacy. You either need to round up the users and execute them, a la Thailand, or stop lining the pockets of murderers. What we are doing is the worst of both worlds.

All of the cocaine and heroin in the USA originated outside of this country along with the bulk of ecstasy. We never had an effective attack on the supply side because we never had a secure border nor have we had death penalty/life sentence for dealers. The monetary incentive to deal far outways the penalty if caught with our current sentencing penalties in this country.

This is pretty transparent and easy to understand. I have seen the impact of illegal drugs firsthand almost daily for the last 20 years.
Arguing any further on the Internet is just a waste of time.

Upon further reflection, you are right. Lets not restrict anything at the border. Let's not stop any heroin, cocaine, or any drugs at our border. That will make this country better. In fact let Obamacare cover illicit drugs too. Drugs, free for everybody...

 

[Woobie]

All of the cocaine and heroin in the USA originated outside of this country along with the bulk of ecstasy. We never had an effective attack on the supply side because we never had a secure border nor have we had death penalty/life sentence for dealers. The monetary incentive to deal far outways the penalty if caught with our current sentencing penalties in this country.

This is pretty transparent and easy to understand. I have seen the impact of illegal drugs firsthand almost daily for the last 20 years.
Arguing any further on the Internet is just a waste of time.

Upon further reflection, you are right. Lets not restrict anything at the border. Let's not stop any heroin, cocaine, or any drugs at our border. That will make this country better. In fact let Obamacare cover illicit drugs too. Drugs, free for everybody...

You actually want to kill people for doing something that you license others to do? I'm fascinated by this line of reasoning.

You sound frustrated....

I respect your experience, but I see it daily as well. I see a lot of social ills, as a matter of fact. That doesn't mean I want to go authorizing my government to kill those people too. In fact, a lot of the problems I see are closely related to some government program or other. It doesn't exactly give me confidence to hand them more power to fix things.

 

[Woobie]

I'll fire this back up because Trigger Time said something in another thread that struck a nerve.

You want to start throwing people in jail for pushing drugs? Cool. Then show me you mean what you say and let's go after the VA. They are the biggest bunch of pill pushers out there. The VA is probably responsible for more addicts than MS-13. Since Vietnam they have been a front for US subsidies to big pharmaceutical, and they have used pills as substitutes for actual care. Poor vets have a free supply of pills to flip for a good profit out on the street. Meanwhile, the vets who are not getting any actual care are eventually succumbing to the lack of treatment coupled with their new addiction. If a doctor at a pain clinic were to behave like a VA doc, they would have the DEA on them hard and fast. But that is what your tax dollars are purchasing.

 

[eldirector]

Woman Revived after Crash with Infant in the Car Arrested for Overdosing a Second Time | 93.1 WIBC
Making the pro-Narcan argument pretty weak.

 

[churchmouse]

Woman Revived after Crash with Infant in the Car Arrested for Overdosing a Second Time | 93.1 WIBC
Making the pro-Narcan argument pretty weak.

I saw this last night. If we keep reviving these idiots it will only get worse.
Revive them and off to rehab. Period. If that fails off the jail for 6 months and that will dry them out..
If that fails no more revival. None. Nada. Done. See ya.

 

[eldirector]

It would be interesting to see some statistics:

- How many folks revived after an overdoes do it again?
- How many go on to commit other crimes post-revival?
- How many go on to lead clean, productive lives?

 

[Fargo]

I saw this last night. If we keep reviving these idiots it will only get worse.
Revive them and off to rehab. Period. If that fails off the jail for 6 months and that will dry them out..
If that fails no more revival. None. Nada. Done. See ya.

I would wholeheartedly support mandatory pairing of narcan with vivitrol. If you don't want your time with opioids crimped by vivitrol, you can carry a card opting out of narcan.

Locally, the last 3 revived were wretched criminals including 2 child molesters, one of whom was a fugitive.

Locally, a bunch of convicted drug dealers have also been revived at taxpayer expense.

Maybe I am jaded, but imo the argument that narcan should be a personal/family funded endeavor rather than a taxpayer burden is becoming pretty compelling.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Indianapolis man who crashed after overdosing with baby in car dies | Fox 59
Well, I guess there was a victim after all.

 

[churchmouse]

Indianapolis man who crashed after overdosing with baby in car dies | Fox 59
Well, I guess there was a victim after all.

Was there not injury's in the other car...???

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Was there not injury's in the other car...???

I thought I read it was only their car involved, the update only says "rolled into oncoming traffic."

 

[poptab]

Blaming 'drug crimes' on drugs is like blaming 'gun crimes' on guns.

If we are seriously advocating drug bans then we cant be critical of those advocating gun bans and remain logically consistent.

 

[Fargo]

Blaming 'drug crimes' on drugs is like blaming 'gun crimes' on guns.

If we are seriously advocating drug bans then we cant be critical of those advocating gun bans and remain logically consistent.

Right.......Firearms ownership rewrites the chemical patterns in the brain to the point that I am no longer able to feel pleasure and in fact feel intense pain if I don't get my fix of firearm ownership every day. LOL

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I saw this one on my FB feed today.

1 person dies of drug overdose sitting in truck on Westport Road - WDRB 41 Louisville News

 

[poptab]

Right.......Firearms ownership rewrites the chemical patterns in the brain to the point that I am no longer able to feel pleasure and in fact feel intense pain if I don't get my fix of firearm ownership every day. LOL

So humans aren't responsible for drug crimes? Its the drugs fault?

This is the same logic gun grabbers use.

 

[ATM]

Vice are not crimes. Crimes committed in the pursuit or under the influences of vices are still crimes.

How can any rational counterargument be made?

 

[Fargo]

Vice are not crimes. Crimes committed in the pursuit or under the influences of vices are still crimes.

How can any rational counterargument be made?

So humans aren't responsible for drug crimes? Its the drugs fault?

This is the same logic gun grabbers use.

Nothing in either of your posts cures the false equivocation and broken analogy that owning a weapon and being a heroin junky are the same.

 

[ATM]

Nothing in either of your posts cures the false equivocation and broken analogy that owning a weapon and being a heroin junky are the same.

First, what I posted stands on its own.

Second, blaming, demonizing or criminalizing objects rather than individual human choices and actions seems fairly comparable to me.