Any Structural Engineers here?

[CHCRandy]

I got into a mess at Heritage Lake. I am trying to help a homeowner resolve a problem. He built an enclosed porch, made the HOA/POA angry and now they are requiring an engineer to sign off on it. The entire issue is footers. Since it was built on a pre-existing 2000 square foot, 5 1/2" slab with mesh and rebar......instead of him cutting chunks out of the perfectly poured slab to pour a footer. The 450 Sq foot porch weighs no more than 3,000 pounds, total complete. I am now thinking of having 4-12" holes cut in concrete and installing 4x6's below frost line to give it "footers". But HOA is insisting an engineer sign off on it. Putnam County passed the inspection with no footers, but the HOA disagrees with them and Indiana Building Code and them Board members think they know better.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Ziggidy]

but the HOA disagrees with them and Indiana Building Code and them Board members think they know better.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Y’all need to grease the palms of the HOA and should be good?

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I'd cut some three-inch sections of eight-inch sono tube. Then place those in appropriate places between porch and slab, and fill with concrete. When the concrete cures, take off the sono tube and tell anybody who looks at it that the sono tube holes were drilled down three feet through holes cut in the slab.

 

[yeti rider]

I'd say if the county passed off on them, they are good to go. Nothing gets built without county inspection signing off, so if good with them, it should be good for everyone. I'd tell the HOA to pound sand. I know this doesn't answer your question, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[PGRChaplain]

Building many New Homes in Allen and surrounding Counties we ran into need for Engineering on some Projects. Jim McClain in Ft Wayne always did an outstanding job. Most times it was just recommended with no Signed Drawing needed. Engineering is Expensive!
If I read this correctly the Porch was constructed on a Floating Slab. Did they have a Permit that was signed off by a County Building Inspector? Is this Porch a Conditioned Space?

 

[rhamersley]

I work for a company that has a licensed structural engineer, but would probably be pretty pricey to get him to look at it.

 

[Ingomike]

I'd say if the county passed off on them, they are good to go. Nothing gets built without county inspection signing off, so if good with them, it should be good for everyone. I'd tell the HOA to pound sand. I know this doesn't answer your question, but that's my 2 cents.

So you would renege on your signed word? County inspection is a joke.

 

[WebSnyper]

Do the HOA covenants state that a sign off from a structural engineer is required? I'm guessing he just didn't get their approval in advance and now the HOA is pushing it because of that but would never have made that requirement if he had submitted up front (which I am guessing the HOA does require).

I'd push back and provide the HOA what is required in the covenants and try and get a retroactive approval.

I had an issue where I did submit up front on an enhancement, so was in compliance from that standpoint, but the HOA tried to require a level above what county, town, etc required on the project. I knew there was a home where the builder had actually done exactly what I was seeking to do and it was one block from me (which again was in compliance with county, town, etc and I even confirmed it with the town planner).

I pressed it with the HOA and inquired if they were going to require that the other homeowner tear down what the original builder (and only one in the neighborhood) had done or if they were going to approve my "exception". They quickly approved.

 

[Cameramonkey]

HOAs can almost do whatever they want. (as long as its in the covenants) The little napoleons in a friend's neighborhood went medieval on her because she dared to not get written permission to turn the nevada shaped plot of grass between her drive and sidewalk up to the front porch to a 1 block high raised bed of flowers.

She was halfway through when she got a cease and desist. She was ordered to rip out what she had done, replant grass USING SOD (seed and mat/straw was an eyesore), then petition the board for the change WITH PROFESSIONAL ARCHETECTURAL ELEVATION ILLUSTRATIONS of what it would look like when she was done. They wanted her to spend thousands to show them how a $150 project would look.

She's quite a strong willed individual and pretty much told them to go to hell for insisting on over the top requirements for a tiny 30sqfr flower bed where the compliance/documentation costs were going to be 10x the project cost.

When it was obvious she wasnt backing down they gave her a stern verbal warning and said she could proceed THIS ONE TIME but never let it happen again.

 

[Ingomike]

Do the HOA covenants state that a sign off from a structural engineer is required? I'm guessing he just didn't get their approval in advance and now the HOA is pushing it because of that but would never have made that requirement if he had submitted up front (which I am guessing the HOA does require).

I'd push back and provide the HOA what is required in the covenants and try and get a retroactive approval.

I had an issue where I did submit up front on an enhancement, so was in compliance from that standpoint, but the HOA tried to require a level above what county, town, etc required on the project. I knew there was a home where the builder had actually done exactly what I was seeking to do and it was one block from me (which again was in compliance with county, town, etc and I even confirmed it with the town planner).

I pressed it with the HOA and inquired if they were going to require that the other homeowner tear down what the original builder (and only one in the neighborhood) had done or if they were going to approve my "exception". They quickly approved.

With most HOA’s, the member is to submit plans, is it an unreasonable ask, to a party that did not follow the covenants they agreed to, to have a structural engineer review the work and confirm it is sound? Are there actual formal prints of the work that was done, bills for the materials to complete the work, and other proof it was done correctly?

 

[WebSnyper]

With most HOA’s, the member is to submit plans, is it an unreasonable ask, to a party that did not follow the covenants they agreed to, to have a structural engineer review the work and confirm it is sound? Are there actual formal prints of the work that was done, bills for the materials to complete the work, and other proof it was done correctly?

I'm just saying they typically would not require an engineer if submitted up front. I'd guess it's punitive on their part.

I get that it should have been submitted up front if the covenants require it, but my question is do the covenants call out an engineer sign off?

I'd try and communicate with them and see if it could be worked out, but a structural engineer seems a bit much.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

HOAs can almost do whatever they want. (as long as its in the covenants) The little napoleons in a friend's neighborhood went medieval on her because she dared to not get written permission to turn the nevada shaped plot of grass between her drive and sidewalk up to the front porch to a 1 block high raised bed of flowers.

She was halfway through when she got a cease and desist. She was ordered to rip out what she had done, replant grass USING SOD (seed and mat/straw was an eyesore), then petition the board for the change WITH PROFESSIONAL ARCHETECTURAL ELEVATION ILLUSTRATIONS of what it would look like when she was done. They wanted her to spend thousands to show them how a $150 project would look.

She's quite a strong willed individual and pretty much told them to go to hell for insisting on over the top requirements for a tiny 30sqfr flower bed where the compliance/documentation costs were going to be 10x the project cost.

When it was obvious she wasnt backing down they gave her a stern verbal warning and said she could proceed THIS ONE TIME but never let it happen again.

 

[Ingomike]

I'm just saying they typically would not require an engineer if submitted up front. I'd guess it's punitive on their part.

I get that it should have been submitted up front if the covenants require it, but my question is do the covenants call out an engineer sign off?

I'd try and communicate with them and see if it could be worked out, but a structural engineer seems a bit much.

The closest I have seen to this was Marion county requiring retroactive building permits and they required a structural engineer report.

 

[patience0830]

Another fine reason to ban HOAs

 

[CHCRandy]

Building many New Homes in Allen and surrounding Counties we ran into need for Engineering on some Projects. Jim McClain in Ft Wayne always did an outstanding job. Most times it was just recommended with no Signed Drawing needed. Engineering is Expensive!
If I read this correctly the Porch was constructed on a Floating Slab. Did they have a Permit that was signed off by a County Building Inspector? Is this Porch a Conditioned Space?

Yes, Putnam County Building Inspector passed it, but HOA denied it based on no rebar inspection of footer(but there never was a footer since it was on a pre-existing slab). The porch was constructed on a floating slab.....the slab we calculated weighs around 40-50 tons. The porch is not conditioned and plans for it called for no interior finish....just walls, metal roof and 5 windows. It is 14' x 29' and connected to house.

 

[CHCRandy]

I work for a company that has a licensed structural engineer, but would probably be pretty pricey to get him to look at it.

Could you ask him how pricey for me? It is located at Heritage Lake just West of Danville. I am sure the homeowner would have no beef with paying to have it looked at. Just this HOA insists we have a structural engineer sign off on it. At this point, he either has to pay an engineer to sign off or pay me to tear it down or pay an attorney to litigate. What a mess....

 

[CHCRandy]

Do the HOA covenants state that a sign off from a structural engineer is required? I'm guessing he just didn't get their approval in advance and now the HOA is pushing it because of that but would never have made that requirement if he had submitted up front (which I am guessing the HOA does require).

I'd push back and provide the HOA what is required in the covenants and try and get a retroactive approval.

I had an issue where I did submit up front on an enhancement, so was in compliance from that standpoint, but the HOA tried to require a level above what county, town, etc required on the project. I knew there was a home where the builder had actually done exactly what I was seeking to do and it was one block from me (which again was in compliance with county, town, etc and I even confirmed it with the town planner).

I pressed it with the HOA and inquired if they were going to require that the other homeowner tear down what the original builder (and only one in the neighborhood) had done or if they were going to approve my "exception". They quickly approved.

No, Covenants do not require that. But Covenants do require footers under all attached buildings. The HOA also requires 2 runs of 1/2" rebar in footer. Homeowner did not seek HOA approval before building, only Putnam County approval, which they approved without footers since it was on a pre-existing slab. I asked in the meeting for variance if I place 4x6 posts below frost level to support building if this would be sufficient.....and they told me only if a certified engineer submits a letter stating that the posts are sufficient.

I can get 5........12" holes punched in slab for $850. Then drill and install posts and concrete posts in place. But this will only work if we can find an engineer that dont cost us a fortune to write a letter.

In a nutshell, this homeowner pissed off the HOA by not seeking their approval instead of the County, now they are making it as difficult as possible on him.

I can show them many additions in this HOA that are not on footers, but they claim them were all grandfathered in when new "rule" was adopted.

 

[CHCRandy]

With most HOA’s, the member is to submit plans, is it an unreasonable ask, to a party that did not follow the covenants they agreed to, to have a structural engineer review the work and confirm it is sound? Are there actual formal prints of the work that was done, bills for the materials to complete the work, and other proof it was done correctly?

How can a bunch of people who know nothing about construction possibly know more than the Putnam County Inspectors and Indiana State Building Codes? They have authority over set backs, aesthetics, architecture, colors, view of neighbors, etc., I can accept that...but I just don't think they can legally override Indiana Building Code, but I could be wrong. I tried pushing the homeowner to just lawyer up......but he dont seem interested yet.

 

[Ingomike]

How can a bunch of people who know nothing about construction possibly know more than the Putnam County Inspectors and Indiana State Building Codes? They have authority over set backs, aesthetics, architecture, colors, view of neighbors, etc., I can accept that...but I just don't think they can legally override Indiana Building Code, but I could be wrong. I tried pushing the homeowner to just lawyer up......but he dont seem interested yet.

It is nice of you to try to solve this for them but the homeowner did it wrong, and just needs to bite the bullet and fix it as per the structural engineer to satisfy the board. You are correct they probably know nothing but they have to do something to cover themselves that they did not fail in the job they were elected to do.

 

[planedriver]

No solution here because it’s f****** hoa. This whole scenario is repeated daily on a national level….. something like having lockjaw at a cork suckers convention. The best solution if get out while there’s a chance. Timeshares we’re finally debunked. Hoa’s should be next. (Only hoping)