Anyone have a sure fire way to reload 357 SIG.

[Sigsauerosarus Rex]

I reload 357 SIG, it is painstaking and tedious work, but you I gain a lot from reloading them cause they are expensive rounds. If I make a box of 50, I've had 5-10 not make the cut. Does anyone have a good technique to load 357 SIG with a better success rate? The most irritating thing about it, is a round can be between 1.135 and 1.140 and the round will not pass my chamber fit test for some reason. I always fit test them before I deem them 'good', because they're so finicky.

 

[OHOIAN]

Is your sizing die just touching the shell holder? What bullet and load are you using? Try to give more info so we can help.

 

[oldpink]

I've never reloaded .357 Sig, but I've reloaded plenty of .30-06, another bottleneck case.
Is it possible that you're getting so many rejects because your sizing die is bumping the shoulder back too much or too little?
Also, I'm unsure how much case lube, if any, but maybe that could be part of the equation somehow.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Nope. I've heard too many horror stories of improper crimp letting bullets set back under recoil and BOOM results. There's so little margin of error in a .357 Sig I just don't trust me to reload it. My answer was to buy a conversion barrel and use .40 or 9mm.

I dig .357 Sig...but I don't dig the cost of factory ammo or the PITA of reloading it.

 

[Sigsauerosarus Rex]

I hear you there, I never go all out on 357 SIG reloads, no more than 5 in the mag and no rapid fire with reloads. I never had any signs of over pressure with reloads yet. However, Sig has started making FMJs rounds for 357 SIG at about $20 for a box of 50, if that keeps up I won't bother with reloading them anymore.

 

[Sigsauerosarus Rex]

I've never reloaded .357 Sig, but I've reloaded plenty of .30-06, another bottleneck case.
Is it possible that you're getting so many rejects because your sizing die is bumping the shoulder back too much or too little?
Also, I'm unsure how much case lube, if any, but maybe that could be part of the equation somehow.

Yeah oldpink, they are a real pain, they have this short little neck that tough to crimp. I have crushed shoulders before but when that happens its pretty obvious they are way below the min OAL. I've been trying to make a good compressed load to negate the setback issue, or find a .357 specific bullet with a canuleer on it. I could probably move my sizing die back a bit and see what happens.

 

[jblomenberg16]

What bullets are you using? 115 Montana gold 9mm bullets seem to work really well for me. They have enough bearing area to seat to a good OAL and still have room for a crimp.

 

[oldpink]

Yeah oldpink, they are a real pain, they have this short little neck that tough to crimp. I have crushed shoulders before but when that happens its pretty obvious they are way below the min OAL. I've been trying to make a good compressed load to negate the setback issue, or find a .357 specific bullet with a canuleer on it. I could probably move my sizing die back a bit and see what happens.

FWIW, crimp is no substitute for proper neck tension.
I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible that your expander ball is opening the neck up just a bit more than necessary, resulting in insufficient grip on the bullets.
I don't know if they're out there (I know Redding makes these for several bottleneck calibers), but an elegant solution would be to use a bushing style die, which has a removable bushing for the neck portion of the die, which allows you to calibrate for exactly how much neck tension you want until you get it where you want it.
Another solution that you could try, but you'll have to be very judicious about how you do it and because botching it will damage the expander and require a new one, would be to use superfine grit sandpaper to slightly reduce the expander ball diameter to make it expand your neck less.
As for cannelured bullets, this Sierra bullet looks promising and even probably specifically intended for .357 Sig - Sierra Custom Bullets 9mm (355 Diameter) 124 Grain Jacketed Hollow
The only way to know for sure if this bullet really comes with a cannelure as shown in the photo would be to call Sierra (800-223-8799) 9AM-9PM Indiana time and ask directly.
While you're on the phone with them, it would definitely be worth your while to ask if they have any other bullets in that caliber with a cannelure, and (even better) it would be great to explain your situation to them and ask for suggestions to resolve it.
The folks over at Sierra are real experts when it comes to this type of thing.
Another idea would be to get one of these - Corbin HCT-1 Hand Cannelure Tool
Yes, that super short neck can complicate keeping a bullet in place, a problem that my .30-06's ample neck never will have, but I'm sure that you can find a workable solution with a bit of research and tinkering.

 

[17 squirrel]

I load Sig, I load it just like I load bottleneck rifle cartridge's. I use the same proceedures and processes. I have met a few guys over the years that have been having problems and some were using .357 dia bullets or 9mm bullets.
I have always used .355 diameter bullets but I use bullets designed just for 357 Sig. I chamfer the inside of the neck and that helps with neck tension.
It's one of those rounds that takes alittle extra time.

 

[XtremeVel]

The most irritating thing about it, is a round can be between 1.135 and 1.140 and the round will not pass my chamber fit test for some reason. I always fit test them before I deem them 'good', because they're so finicky.

I had the exact same issue when I first started loading the .357 sig. The issue was I was using the (3) die set from Lee and was collapsing the shoulder just enough it wouldn't fully chamber. It was so subtle I couldn't see it with the naked eye but it was enough and would happen probably close to 10% of the time. This was caused from the crimp die they give you in the (3) die set putting DOWNWARD pressure on the case mouth. Just a few thousandth's variance in case length would make a difference. This issue disappeared 100% as soon as I replaced the Lee crimp die with their factory crimp die that applies the pressure from the sides using a collet type sleeve. The collet type crimp die is forgiving if you have variance in the case lengths.

An easy way to verify if the issue is in the crimp step is simply run another 50 without crimping and see if all 50 drop right in. If they do and once you go back and crimp the same 50 you still get the same 5-10 rejects, you will know you need to change to a crimp style that does not put downward force on the case mouth.

The (2) things I found that eliminates any potential bullet set back is to size your expanding plug for enough tension thatyou can not move the bullet deeper prior to any crimping operation. get the tension right before you even consider crimping. Do not rely on the crimp ! In my case, I ended up polishing a good .0005 / side off my expander plug.

One additional thing I do to prevent any possible set back is to select a powder ( Blue Dot in my case ) that fill the case enough that the bullet couldn't even possibly be driven back deeper.

I like using the Hornady 124 gr FMJ-FP for full power loads. You can get them in bulk and they are constructed heavy enough for a full power load. .357 Sig is a great cartridge to load, and it isn't bad at all once you figure out how to good , consistent tension on your bullet.

 

[Leo]

Some good information already posted.

I played with them a while back. A friend here gave me the tip of using a LEE collet style crimp die. It worked fine. I sure wish the designer had made that neck about 3 X as long. That would have made it a lot easier round to load.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Some good information already posted.

I played with them a while back. A friend here gave me the tip of using a LEE collet style crimp die. It worked fine. I sure wish the designer had made that neck about 3 X as long. That would have made it a lot easier round to load.

The Lee Factory crimp die is definitely a good one to use.

.357 Sig would be awesome with a longer neck (more power) but wouldn't fit in the guns designed around the .40 S&W.

 

[oldpink]

Xtremevel gave another outstanding answer.
Great mind think alike *pats self on the back* because, after thinking about it since posting earlier, I was thinking about exactly how you were crimping.
Xtremevel's suggestion to use the Lee Factory Crimp is spot on, but I also was thinking that you were getting collapsed necks because you could have been trying to do something that I read years ago is a big mistake when reloading: attempting to seat and crimp in one step.
The reason that's such a big mistake is because the seating stem is pushing the bullet into its final position, while at the same time the crimp ring is squeezing the case mouth inward, which forces the case mouth into the bullet even as the bullet is sliding downward.
When you do that to the mouth, you not only often get inconsistent seating depths because of the directional conflict, but you will get a lot of ruined loads because of buckled case necks.
If you have no separate crimp die, the solution is to seat and crimp in two separate steps by having the seater die sitting just high enough in your press that the crimp ring doesn't contact the case while seating, then screwed downward enough to apply just the right amount of crimp in a second run through the die to apply the proper amount of crimp.
You can greatly simplify that process with these steps in this order:
1) With it die lock ring unlocked and with its seater stem all the way up, screw the seater die into the press just a few turns to keep it in the press.
2) Run a resized and empty case with no primer seated and no bullet in the case mouth all the way up to the die until the press comes to a stop.
3) Slowly and carefully, screw the seater die in until you just barely feel the crimp ring contact the case mouth, back the die off one full turn, then screw the die lock ring down all the way until it is against the press firmly to prevent movement of the die, as if you were normally using the lock ring to stabilize the die, but without actually tightening the clamp screw for the lock ring itself.
4) Lower the ram all the way, put the bullet you intend to load in the case mouth the way you would if you intend to load in it, then run the ram all the way up to its stop.
5) Slowly turn the seater stem down until you feel it contact the bullet.
6) Lower the ram an inch or so, turn the seater stem in two full turns, then raise the ram all the way, which will partially seat the bullet.
7) Lower the ram enough to check that the bullet is fully started in the case mouth, then repeat step 6, but with partial turns of the seater stem each time and using your calipers to check the case length each time until you finally have the exact seating depth you intend to use for that particular bullet.
8) Screw the seater stem all the way up, then turn the seater die in two full turns, ensuring that it can't wiggle once down.
9) Slowly and carefully run the round you just seated all the way up into the die, which will at least partially crimp it.
10) Lower the ram, then carefully examine the case mouth to see how much crimp was just applied, then repeat step 9 and this step, but with partial rotations of the die body, until you finally have just the right amount of crimp applied, then firmly tighten the die lock ring screw.

Once all those steps are done, you will have a finished dummy round for that particular bullet, so you'll want to write down exactly what bullet is in it on the case with a Sharpie for future use.
Now, when you seat that particular bullet, for a shim first screw a second but unclamped die lock ring under the die's own lock ring until it is firmly against it, then screw the die all the way into your press.
That second lock ring will keep the die body up enough to stop it from crimping.
Now, run the dummy round you just made all the way up to the stop, then turn the seater stem down until you feel it firmly contact the bullet.
Lower the ram, then put a bullet in the case mouth of a resized, primed, and charged case of the first round you intend to load, then carefully raise it all the way up into the seater die.
Lower the ram, measure its length, then measure the length of the dummy round to see how close it is, then repeat the previous process with tiny increments of screwing in the seater stem until your loaded round's length matches that of your dummy round.
Lock the seater stem's lock ring firmly, then simply load and seat all the ammo you want with that particular bullet.
Unlock, then unscrew the seater stem of the die all the way up so that it can't contact the bullet.
Now, to crimp all the rounds you just seated, unscrew the seater die, remove the extra lock ring (which lowers the die body enough to allow the crimp ring to engage and crimp the case mouth), then run all the ammo you just loaded and seated all the way up into the seater die, which will apply the crimp without moving the bullet any more downward.
I went through all those steps to explain how to seat and crimp without a dedicated crimp die to show just how complicated that can be.

Now, to make it far easier and more reliable, just buy yourself a Lee Factory Crimp die for .357 Sig, then the numbered steps up to and including step 7, but this time with the seater die lock ring positioned and clamped at this point to seat all your ammo without using its internal crimp ring.
You can now seat all your ammo this way, remove the seater die altogether, then use the Factory Cimp die to crimp all your ammo.
Lee is best known for making less expensive reloading equipment, some of it not quite as good as that from the likes of RCBS or Redding or the other companies, but their Factory Crimp is a cut above anything their competitors have and something that probably anyone who loads for handgun cartridges or for rifle that requires a crimp, particularly rifle ammo used in guns with tubular magazines.
The Factory Crimp is worthwhile for any straight wall handgun case, but it should be just about indispensable for .357 Sig.

 

[oldpink]

Xtremevel gave another outstanding answer.
Great mind think alike *pats self on the back* because, after thinking about it since posting earlier, I was thinking about exactly how you were crimping.
Xtremevel's suggestion to use the Lee Factory Crimp is spot on, but I also was thinking that you were getting collapsed necks because you could have been trying to do something that I read years ago is a big mistake when reloading: attempting to seat and crimp in one step.
The reason that's such a big mistake is because the seating stem is pushing the bullet into its final position, while at the same time the crimp ring is squeezing the case mouth inward, which forces the case mouth into the bullet even as the bullet is sliding downward.
When you do that to the mouth, you not only often get inconsistent seating depths because of the directional conflict, but you will get a lot of ruined loads because of buckled case necks.
If you have no separate crimp die, the solution is to seat and crimp in two separate steps by having the seater die sitting just high enough in your press that the crimp ring doesn't contact the case while seating, then screwed downward enough to apply just the right amount of crimp in a second run through the die to apply the proper amount of crimp.
You can greatly simplify that process with these steps in this order:
1) With it die lock ring unlocked and with its seater stem all the way up, screw the seater die into the press just a few turns to keep it in the press.
2) Run a resized and empty case with no primer seated and no bullet in the case mouth all the way up to the die until the press comes to a stop.
3) Slowly and carefully, screw the seater die in until you just barely feel the crimp ring contact the case mouth, back the die off one full turn, then screw the die lock ring down all the way until it is against the press firmly to prevent movement of the die, as if you were normally using the lock ring to stabilize the die, but without actually tightening the clamp screw for the lock ring itself.
4) Lower the ram all the way, put the bullet you intend to load in the case mouth the way you would if you intend to load in it, then run the ram all the way up to its stop.
5) Slowly turn the seater stem down until you feel it contact the bullet.
6) Lower the ram an inch or so, turn the seater stem in two full turns, then raise the ram all the way, which will partially seat the bullet.
7) Lower the ram enough to check that the bullet is fully started in the case mouth, then repeat step 6, but with partial turns of the seater stem each time and using your calipers to check the case length each time until you finally have the exact seating depth you intend to use for that particular bullet.
8) Screw the seater stem all the way up, then turn the seater die in two full turns, ensuring that it can't wiggle once down.
9) Slowly and carefully run the round you just seated all the way up into the die, which will at least partially crimp it.
10) Lower the ram, then carefully examine the case mouth to see how much crimp was just applied, then repeat step 9 and this step, but with partial rotations of the die body, until you finally have just the right amount of crimp applied, then firmly tighten the die lock ring screw.

Once all those steps are done, you will have a finished dummy round for that particular bullet, so you'll want to write down exactly what bullet is in it on the case with a Sharpie for future use.
Now, when you seat that particular bullet, for a shim first screw a second but unclamped die lock ring under the die's own lock ring until it is firmly against it, then screw the die all the way into your press.
That second lock ring will keep the die body up enough to stop it from crimping.
Now, run the dummy round you just made all the way up to the stop, then turn the seater stem down until you feel it firmly contact the bullet.
Lower the ram, then put a bullet in the case mouth of a resized, primed, and charged case of the first round you intend to load, then carefully raise it all the way up into the seater die.
Lower the ram, measure its length, then measure the length of the dummy round to see how close it is, then repeat the previous process with tiny increments of screwing in the seater stem until your loaded round's length matches that of your dummy round.
Lock the seater stem's lock ring firmly, then simply load and seat all the ammo you want with that particular bullet.
Unlock, then unscrew the seater stem of the die all the way up so that it can't contact the bullet.
Now, to crimp all the rounds you just seated, unscrew the seater die, remove the extra lock ring (which lowers the die body enough to allow the crimp ring to engage and crimp the case mouth), then run all the ammo you just loaded and seated all the way up into the seater die, which will apply the crimp without moving the bullet any more downward.
I went through all those steps to explain how to seat and crimp without a dedicated crimp die to show just how complicated that can be.

Now, to make it far easier and more reliable, just buy yourself a Lee Factory Crimp die for .357 Sig, then the numbered steps up to and including step 7, but this time with the seater die lock ring positioned and clamped at this point to seat all your ammo without using its internal crimp ring.
You can now seat all your ammo this way, remove the seater die altogether, then use the Factory Cimp die to crimp all your ammo.
You have to be very careful how you use a conventional crimp because you can actually damage your case mouth with too much, but the Factory Crimp is far more forgiving, to the point that you practically have to want to collapse the neck with it.
Lee is best known for making less expensive reloading equipment, some of it not quite as good as that from the likes of RCBS or Redding or the other companies, but their Factory Crimp is a cut above anything their competitors have and something that probably anyone who loads for handgun cartridges or for rifle that requires a crimp, particularly rifle ammo used in guns with tubular magazines.
The Factory Crimp is worthwhile for any straight wall handgun case, but it should be just about indispensable for .357 Sig.

 

[Sigsauerosarus Rex]

XtremeVel, That sounds like a great idea. I already use a Lee four die set. I use their factory crimp die too. I trust my Blue Dot loads, and I only have used Speer 125gn TMJs 357 SIG .355 357 SIG specific bullets. At what point do Blue Dot loads begin to compress in the 357 SIG?

 

[XtremeVel]

XtremeVel, That sounds like a great idea. I already use a Lee four die set. I use their factory crimp die too. I trust my Blue Dot loads, and I only have used Speer 125gn TMJs 357 SIG .355 357 SIG specific bullets. At what point do Blue Dot loads begin to compress in the 357 SIG?

As far as I know, Lee doesn't offer a 4 die set in .357 sig. Last I knew, they offered a 3 die set which the 3rd die is what gave me fits. I had to add the 4th die which is their collet style crimp die. It's advertised as a FCD, but unlike straight walled pistol calibers it uses a collet instead of a plug and also it doesn't not have the secondary carbide insert for post sizing.

If you actually have the collet type crimp die, I wouldn't know what your issue is then, unless you have your third die set to crimp. I would still eliminate your crimping process though before you do any more trouble shooting. Just load up a few more, making sure your third die seats the bullet ONLY and then check how they drop in. Only after you check them, then go back and crimp them.

Blue Dot @ 10.0 grs isn't compressed, but the bullet couldn't possibly move much. If I work up to 10.8-11.0 gr, I'd call it compressed.

Speer makes great bullets. I have loaded a few of their Gold Dots specific for the sig. FWIW, I have found the hornadys are just as accurate and if you buy them by the 2900 count case, they are MUCH cheaper. The ones I stocked deep are HRN35567B and I just checked and don't see them anywhere. Hopefully they have not discontinued them. Been awhile since I ordered any. If you see them anywhere, I would be confident you'd be happy with them.

 

[oldpink]

+1 on the above post
Some spot on advice there.

 

[Sigsauerosarus Rex]

Batch I'm sorry I misspoke. It is a Lee three-die set with the factory crimp die added to it. Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm going to try it after I get this big batch of 9mm finished.

 

[Fullmag]

Sigsaur, have loaded some 357sigs also. What powder are you using? Have you ever had any trouble with the primers not seating?

 

[Sigsauerosarus Rex]

I use Blue Dot and Accurate 9.