Anyone here do the Dave Ramsey thing?

[dudley0]

Can't tell you how many times I talked people into doing a refinance on their home to save money. Then they turn around and pull cash out so they can buy a new bike, or stereo or something else that is not value added.

What a great deal... bought a new Harley and made the house pay for it... for the next 30 years.

I use debt all the time. It is what I do. I am not rich but I am not hurting either. I pay interest on houses, vehicles and cards. That is all part of it for me. I do not follow the principle that if I have credit left on the card I need to use it.

Never read his stuff but it sounds like he has a good plan. I don't have the problem of silly spending, but I know a lot who do. If you can not afford it you need to realize that up front. Maybe some assistance from an outside source can help you.

 

[JettaKnight]

I don't really dislike the guy. I am sure he has helped millions of people and that in itself makes him a good guy, but I would be willing to bet for every one he helped, he hurt some as well and many more failed completely. I am sure he is a smart guy but he is by no means the best person in this country to give financial advice. He is simply teaching you how to handle money.

I'll take that bet. Got anything more than a guess to go on?

I fail to see how, "avoid debt, live within your means" can be a harmful message.

Some of the richest people in the world are the poorest money managers, look at professional athletes and such.

What does that have to do with Ramsey?

I just disagree with much of what he says. I think anyone can do what he sells you. He is a lot smarter than me and he has a lot more money than I will ever have...but still it is just math. Many of us have went through the same schooling he did, the school of hard knocks. I will be honest, I have never listened to Dave Ramsey(other than the video where he says Schiff is an idiot), but when a guy says to pay cash for a car, get your credit score to 0, have no credit cards or any debt, money in envelopes, shame in bankruptcy.......it just sounds silly. I know there is all different types of people needing financial help, such as those who are current on bills but understand they are going backwards every month, those who are late on payments...some still have good credit, others don't and so on. But almost everyone of us have the God given ability to do simple math. I just think we have to have the ability to realize what's happening and fix it, or make a plan before you reach the darkest hour.

I detect a tone of derision. Not everyone has the financial mindset you do - my wife certainly doesn't. And simply saying, "you know what do - go do it!" isn't the answer, sometimes a guy like Dave that can lay out simple, small steps is necessary.

Sorry to be so long winded. I guess I said all that to just say I don't dislike Ramsey, I just think every situation is very different. There is not a one size fits all. Never give up and don't expect it to fix itself.

It sounds like you do dislike him - you compared him to pedophile, called him a liar about repaying his debts, then accused him of hurting or hindering half of the people who follow his advice.

Furthermore, your financial advice you presented - embrace bankruptcy, play the credit card shuffle, pull money out of a retirement fund early, are contrary to Dave's advice and I think you might feel a bit threatened, subconsciously; not to mention that these are examples of things not to do and don't address the root of the problem (i.e. what got you into debt).

 

[CHCRandy]

It sounds like you do dislike him - you compared him to pedophile, called him a liar about repaying his debts, then accused him of hurting or hindering half of the people who follow his advice.

Furthermore, your financial advice you presented - embrace bankruptcy, play the credit card shuffle, pull money out of a retirement fund early, are contrary to Dave's advice and I think you might feel a bit threatened, subconsciously; not to mention that these are examples of things not to do and don't address the root of the problem (i.e. what got you into debt).

What makes you so sure you're right? I gave numbers, prove my strategy wrong, with numbers....calculators don't lie. It don't take a scientist to figure it out.

I didn't compare him to a pedophile, I compared the people who think he is the second coming to the preacher who is a convicted pedophile. I mean, I agree if you are going to wallow in the mud....you just as well learn how to do it from a hog. Yeah, a convicted pedophile may be able to teach the Bible and tell you not to sin like him, you know first hand experience...or you could find a preacher who teaches the same thing that has never been arrested for being a pedophile. And I do doubt that he repaid any bankruptcy debt.....unless you have proof other wise. The debt was secured by property.....you really think he let the bank foreclose, gave them the property, filed bankruptcy and then gave them the debt back a few years later, along with the property? That sounds foolish, from a money manager no less.

BTW, I notice you didn't jump on his claim of 12% returns like you would me if I said that....lol, but that's ok sunshine.

 

[JettaKnight]

1. No one thinks he's "the second coming" - that's just a strawman you've constructed.
2. I think your choice of pedophile is pretty telling of your disdain. You have said, "a pastor that was in jail for armed robbery" or a drug user, or... nope - you went for the absolute most despicable crime against humanity.
3. What's your complaint about his bankruptcy? You've advocated it as a viable and reasonable option.


I relish the thought of bring a sunshine into dark places!

 

[CampingJosh]

To each their own I guess, but compound interest is reason enough for me to do everything possible to not delay saving for retirement.

Compound interest is a two-way street. Paying it out hurts you as much as earning it helps you.

I know of no other financial advice media that focuses as much on saving for retirement.

 

[BE Mike]

A little bit off topic but if you are fairly young, I'd consider long term care insurance. Medicare won't pay anything for long term care until all of your assets are gone. With people living longer and longer, long term care insurance can help keep you from being a burden to your loved ones when you get old. The cost of long term care runs from around $200/ day and up. It won't be the same or cheaper when you are 40-50 years older.

 

[gunsisgood]

Most of Dave's advice IS sound,
but for a man that has been blessed more than most should,
he comes off as being not a very humble guy.

 

[JettaKnight]

Most of Dave's advice IS sound,
but for a man that has been blessed more than most should,
he comes off as being not a very humble guy.

Just a question, how much should a man be blessed?

 

[gunsisgood]

Just a question, how much should a man be blessed?

Sorry,
allow me to replace the word should with the word deserve.

 

[JettaKnight]

Sorry,
allow me to replace the word should with the word deserve.

If you'll allow me, God has blessed us all more than we deserve.


We need to guard against jealousy and lack of contentment, which gets into most of these financial messes. Be content, be disciplined; who can oppose these noble traits?

 

[jkaetz]

It's what I was taught to do by my parents. Pay off your card every month but one or two times a year leave a small balance. Always worked for them and it worked for me as my first even loan was for a car and I had a 785 score. Maybe there is a better way.

I can add a third confirmation that carrying a balance is unnecessary. In addition I will state that a higher credit limit and multiple cards does not hurt your score. If I total up all of our card limits I believe we are very near our yearly household income yet still both have scores > 830. Needless to say if we used it all we would be in serious trouble. Looking back, I've always viewed credit cards simply as a form of payment. That people actually use them to buy something when they don't already have the $$ is hard for me to grasp but I know it happens. Self discipline and a lack of looking at the math are the root cause of most people's issue with a credit card or debit in general.

As for the larger discussion surrounding Mr. Ramsey, his advice is aimed at a very specific group of people. Those of us who don't fit that group tend to have less than favorable opinions about some of his advice. Fortunately in this country we're all allowed to have our own opinions and ideas.

 

[HoughMade]

As for Dave Ramsey in general, I have no problem with what he teaches, but keep in mind that he is mainly dealing with the equivalent of financial alcoholics. Of course he's going to tell a alcoholic to clear all the booze out of the house, not have any around, not try to be a social drinker and make sure you never come in contact with the stuff.

...but all people are not alcoholics, can social drink without it being a problem and will not binge because they have a bottle in the house.

I don't follow all of his advice because easy credit is not a temptation to me. I pay for what I buy and have never carried a balance on a credit card (and my credit is just fine, thanks...but as I live in the house I plan to die in, why do I need good credit?).

He's good for the people who need him and some of his advice is good for all.

 

[Bfish]

I really like Dave Ramsey, I even jokingly call him Uncle Dave... I've read several of his books and done one of his classes. I'm not in any debt other than a mortgage, and I pay cash for everything I buy. However, I would say I subscribe to his lifestyle more than his principles.

I had my soon to be wife read his book Money Matters about year ago, in what was sort of a condition of marriage that she to at least see my side of things, or financial view point. Her family literally thinks I am crazy when I talk about money and super "extreme" to say the least. She is very good with her money and paying bills, etc. The problem was lots of debt, and poor examples set before her which was leading to making poor choices. She has since paid off all debt but her student loans which will be knocked out within about a year!!! She is honestly a touch more extreme than I am about things now, but she's spent time drowning in debt and learned to loath it, thankfully I never have had much but I have to calm her down from time to time, but I do admire her aggression in getting out.

I do agree with those saying that his books and other things are geared more toward the "financial alcoholic" as someone put it up thread, and maybe not those who are already a touch more responsible. If you are financially responsible though I believe he can be just as useful, you may just not subscribe to every detail.

 

[johnb62]

We did FPU about a year ago. Well worth it. While not adhering 100% it really helped us focus on debt reduction and the results have been great. I highly recommend.

 

[inav8r]

I Dave Ramsey'd myself out of debt. It took a few years to accomplish - but it worked. I didn't follow all of his advice as I still have credit cards and a mortgage. The biggest change occurred when we made the decision to never pay another penny of credit card interest. We never carry a balance (unless it's at 0%). We do use our cards (we each have our own separate cards and I have a card for business only use) and we pay their balance in full every month - no matter how much it hurts.

So for the past couple of years or so we've paid NO credit card interest. The only debt we have left is our mortgage and a car loan. The value of both outweigh their principal balances. The car will be paid off in June and we have no plans to "run out and buy another one" until the wheels fall off one of the ones we already own.

Credit cards, if used improperly, are a TRAP. If you only make the minimum payment you are doing it wrong. (This is my personal opinion and no offense should be conveyed by you, the gentle reader).

“Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves.” — Norm Franz (emphasis added).

 

[Snipercop]

I've taken some of the concepts and ideas and drafted my own program. His entire plan was a little more extreme than I felt was needed for me. A couple guys at work have adopted it and it seems it has taken every little bit of fun out of their lives and caused some marital issues.

 

[BE Mike]

I've taken some of the concepts and ideas and drafted my own program. His entire plan was a little more extreme than I felt was needed for me. A couple guys at work have adopted it and it seems it has taken every little bit of fun out of their lives and caused some marital issues.

My observations are 180 out from yours. There are a lot of divorces over money. The folks I know who have gone to Financial Peace University are a lot happier with all of that debt off their shoulders. Of course anyone can find "reasons" for not doing anything. As I said before, I haven't needed FPU, but I know of a lot of folks who have completed it and are glad they did.

 

[hog slayer]

I've taken some of the concepts and ideas and drafted my own program. His entire plan was a little more extreme than I felt was needed for me. A couple guys at work have adopted it and it seems it has taken every little bit of fun out of their lives and caused some marital issues.

I haven't found this to represent what I've witnessed at all. Guess I'm just fortunate in that.

 

[Jeepster48439]

A couple guys at work have adopted it and it seems it has taken every little bit of fun out of their lives and caused some marital issues.

I would say that they are doing it wrong.

 

[CampingJosh]

A couple guys at work have adopted it and it seems it has taken every little bit of fun out of their lives and caused some marital issues.

If this is accurately reported, those guys are doing it wrong.

Take every bit of fun out of their lives? Possibly. I was there for a few months, budgeting only $20 per month for anything I would consider fun. $20 doesn't go very far.

But causing some marital issues? That's where they are doing it wrong. Mr. Ramsey has said many times that 1/2 of a married couple cannot do the program; it either has to be both or neither. Being on the same page as your spouse is more important than being "right" in an argument or planning for whatever. If you can't both agree to do the program (actually agree, not just railroad the spouse into saying yes), then you're not ready to start the program.