Apple to implement CSAM in the name of stopping child pornography

[ditcherman]

I understand that aspect of the transmission of the data, what I can't understand is how you can sort out the differences enough without actually comparing pictures. At the end of the day nobody wants to send the cops to the wrong phone.

Theron lies the issue; most, even on here, would be all for stopping the bad. The thing that’s debated is what price of privacy do we all pay to stop the few bad?
Slippery slope, I say.
Also, some really don’t care that the cops get ent to the wrong phone. It’s for the children.

 

[rooster]

Let’s throw another scenario out there.

let’s say I have a bone to pick with trump supporters and I have access to that hash database that Apple is using( maybe legally, maybe through a back door). Let’s say I add the hash’s for a bunch of pro trump pics to that database just to watch them all get swatted.....

sure they didn’t do anything wrong and that will be determined eventually but how long will it take. Days, weeks, months....years?

 

[ditcherman]

Ok so the big difference between this and the tech you are talking about is that this is client side. Meaning that the scanning is happening on your iPhone. Yea they claim that it only compares the code of known CP against the code of the photos in your phone but then Apple goes on to say that they can notify you when any photo with nudity gets sent or received on your child’s phone.

that means that they have broken and put in a backdoor into their own “secure” message program.

Sure the back door is only open right now for parents allegedly but how long before those communications are just being read by low level analysts and beat cops on a fishing expedition.

personally I think this is a net loss for Law enforcement. Those that are the real bad guys are gonna be driven further away from mainstream tech and onto more secure systems that can’t be cracked. Osama bin laden used couriers for years to do his business.

When you outlaw CP, only outlaws will have CP kind of thing.

 

[Leadeye]

My son worked club security in Atlanta for years and finally dropped it. He said the human trafficking aspect of that world was revolting. Places outside the USA like china and mexico seem to have different standards.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Apple says Device:


Apple explains:

The key being "Before an image is stored in iCloud Photos"

The processing takes place on the device, but only iCloud photos are processed.

Even though everything is done on-device, Apple only analyzes pictures that are stored in iCloud Photos. Images stored entirely locally are not involved in this process.

 

[ditcherman]

Let’s throw another scenario out there.

let’s say I have a bone to pick with trump supporters and I have access to that hash database that Apple is using( maybe legally, maybe through a back door). Let’s say I add the hash’s for a bunch of pro trump pics to that database just to watch them all get swatted.....

sure they didn’t do anything wrong and that will be determined eventually but how long will it take. Days, weeks, months....years?

Long enough to shame you so you aren’t an influence on your kids or anyone, and give them time to win another election, possibly even install their dictator.

 

[rooster]

When you outlaw CP, only outlaws will have CP kind of thing.

No that’s not what I’m getting at. Mainstream tech is easily trackable and traceable by The feds, what locals have access to idk. This who frenzy around this will likely cause these people to educate themselves instead of just thinking their iPhone or Mac is secure.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Let’s throw another scenario out there.

let’s say I have a bone to pick with trump supporters and I have access to that hash database that Apple is using( maybe legally, maybe through a back door). Let’s say I add the hash’s for a bunch of pro trump pics to that database just to watch them all get swatted.....

sure they didn’t do anything wrong and that will be determined eventually but how long will it take. Days, weeks, months....years?

Then you'd have to access to the non-profit that is supplying the data and have a human verifier sign off on it, and then have enough images to actually get LE interested...which isn't going to happen. It's like worrying that someone will call in every Trump supporter on I-465 for going 3mph over the posted speed limit to get them pulled over, and also leave their name and phone number as the complainant.

 

[rooster]

and then have enough images to actually get LE interested

I gotta say that statement is kinda shocking to a non leo. I would assume a couple of positive hash matches should get the swat team dispatched.

Thats the treatment people looking at,creating and distributing CP should get IMO. Hence the other discussion where I found it reprehensible that the FBI was distributing it.

 

[ditcherman]

No that’s not what I’m getting at. Mainstream tech is easily trackable and traceable by The feds, what locals have access to idk. This who frenzy around this will likely cause these people to educate themselves instead of just thinking their iPhone or Mac is secure.

I was just trying to say the criminal element will always try to find a way around.

 

[Leadeye]

Woke hackers attaching kiddie porn to the cell phones of Trump supporters? Assuming that's traceable, is that a civil or criminal offense?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I gotta say that statement is kinda shocking to a non leo. I would assume a couple of positive hash matches should get the swat team dispatched.

Thats the treatment people looking at,creating and distributing CP should get IMO. Hence the other discussion where I found it reprehensible that the FBI was distributing it.

That's because you have no idea how prevalent it is, and the FBI isn't distributing it. I don't know how much is open source and I'm not putting it in my Google search, but there is a way to be on a file sharing network and "pretend" to be the server but actually be a go between.

 

[jamil]

I don't have one, but it isn't like the alternative is any better.

How could they support Google, for example. Andriod was developed by Google so that they'd have access to more information about you than they can get from Google maps, or chrome. Andriod has ~75% of the market share of mobile devices. It is spyware. If you don't want that ****. Get the freedom phone.

 

[jamil]

Not exactly. Computers don't actually send pictures any more than records contain sound. They encode data which is then reconstructed by the receiving computer or by a needle and speaker system, respectively.

So you have a database with chunks of known "code" that belongs to a CP image. The system then scans for those chunks. It would be like knowing the groove pattern for a few seconds specific to a given record vs knowing what the song is or sounds like. Sort of, that's an oversimplification.

That's why some videos on YouTube of copyrighted material are mirrored (left changed to right) or music contains a few blank spots. It changes the code/groove the programs look for. The video is basically the same, the code/groove is different. The 'checksum' is what those programs look for, I believe.

I think modern algorithms use AI pattern recognition, but the point is still valid.

 

[jamil]

I understand that aspect of the transmission of the data, what I can't understand is how you can sort out the differences enough without actually comparing pictures. At the end of the day nobody wants to send the cops to the wrong phone.

You don't have to compare pictures or, more accurately, bytes of pictures to other bytes of pictures. You teach AI how to recognize patterns in the bytes of pictures as likely being CP and then that's what they look for. It's like the famous quote. "I know it when I see it."

You don't have to compare a photo of a 1967 rambler to a photo of a car to know that it's a car. You recognize the pattern. To a computer, it's just a series of bytes. To AI, it can recognize patterns it's been taught to recognize.

 

[bwframe]

Going back years, I never could understand how any conservative would support Apple/Tim Cook?

From RFRA to the modern day, Apple and Tim Cook have hated us. Any gun owner should know better than to support Apple...

Apple CEO Tim Cook calls US inaction on gun control 'insanity' after mass shootings

Cook says he's "heartbroken" about the weekend mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton.

www.cnbc.com

Tim Cook calls US inaction on gun violence 'insanity' after 2 mass shootings within 24 hours killed 29 people

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results," Tim Cook tweeted of the two US shootings over the weekend.

www.businessinsider.com

Apple CEO Tim Cook Says US Needs Gun Control

Apple CEO Tim Cook says it's "insanity" that lawmakers have not made bipartisan efforts to enact gun control in the United States.

www.ibtimes.com

Who doesn’t hate us?
Who is standing up for our rights, as far as tech provider?

*sent from my iPhone

It may or may not be that others in the communication business fail to support conservatives and especially gun owners.

It's an entirely different matter when they use their notoriety and business platform to work against our better interests.

Apple and Tim Cook has went out of their way to express that we should not have the Second Amendment.




Apple is our enemy in the fight for the Second Amendment.




.
* my message will never be sent from any Apple product...

 

[Ingomike]

It'd be great if they had bots scanning websites for it.

But people's private phones? Whew that is one gigantic leap towards total dystopia.

Can't do that, the alphabet agencies CP websites hosted on government computers would probably be the majority of what came up...

 

[Ingomike]

That's because you have no idea how prevalent it is, and the FBI isn't distributing it. I don't know how much is open source and I'm not putting it in my Google search, but there is a way to be on a file sharing network and "pretend" to be the server but actually be a go between.

The FBI was distributing it. They busted a big CP source then moved the sites to government servers, they said to catch additional perps. So for a period of time they were indeed hosting and distributing the biggest cache of CP out there.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Dangerous territory.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The FBI was distributing it. They busted a big CP source then moved the sites to government servers, they said to catch additional perps. So for a period of time they were indeed hosting and distributing the biggest cache of CP out there.

Playpen? I did mention that in the FBI thread. The "mirror" is how it's normally done, but Playpen was an exception. I'll ask a condensed version here instead of rehashing it. By leaving it up, they rescued some 350 children from abusers who were producing child porn. Was that immoral?

*edit*

Actually I'll make it simpler. Would you leave a server running for 2 years to save 350 children from a life of producing child porn and see the perpetrators arrested or would you leave the children were they are and the producers free to keep making more porn but burn the server down?