AR pistol build, newbie questions..

[Csquared]

I'm in the market to build or buy an AR pistol.. I'm looking for something small for concealability in a Bug out bag or home defense.. I don't want to go the SBR route or jump into NFA quite yet. I don't think?

Is something like this overpriced? Spike's Tactical Pistol (5.56 ) Pipe Hitter's Union 8.1" Barrel w/9" M-LOK & Barking Spider - PHUP5181-M9B I like this setup because it's packed with high end parts/accessories and has the barking spider to hide muzzle flash.

Anyone have any input? Tips or tricks for AR pistol builds?

One last thing, how does this setup not fall under an SBR? Just because the lower is sold as a "pistol" lower?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Archer]

If you purchase either a standard or dedicated pistol lower, it is a pistol according to the law.

Personally, I wouldn't bother making an AR pistol with a barrel less than 10.3/10.5 inches. Any less and you are greatly reducing the effectiveness of the 5.56 cartridge. With a barrel length of 10.3-11.5", you also don't need to worry as much about a muzzle device that redirects the gasses forward, you can make do with a simple flash hider.

I think the AR pistol in your link is definitely overpriced for what it is, if you build it yourself you can save a substantial amount of money, and not be stuck with the options that come on it. I also wouldn't build a pistol without KAK Industry's excellent Shockwave Blade and proprietary buffer tube, it really helps bridge the gap between AR pistol and SBR.

 

[OakRiver]

So, silly question but have you considered .300BLK? The optimum barrel length is ~9 inches and it should be more than suitable for self defense and also possibly hunting in a pinch. Cost may be a barrier though at 71c a round versus around 32c for .223

 

[Csquared]

So, silly question but have you considered .300BLK? The optimum barrel length is ~9 inches and it should be more than suitable for self defense and also possibly hunting in a pinch. Cost may be a barrier though at 71c a round versus around 32c for .223

The sole reason I haven't considered a 300BO is because I have quite a stock of 223. Adding another caliber would hurt the funds at the moment. I'm one of those if I don't have a couple thousand rounds, I'm nervous.

 

[throttletony]

As others have said, you lose some velocity/energy in that short of a barrel. you ALSO get a lot of extra bang&flash (regardless of muzzle device used -- this just redirects more of it forward)

This seems pricey to me. I'm sure you could get into a quality setup for $900-1200, then add a nice red dot.

PLEASE consider the following:
Buy an assembled pistol upper of your choice.
Buy a stripped lower and finish it yourself.
get the pistol upper with 10.5" barrel along with a midwest industries pistol buffer tube slightly longer than normal. This puts the overall length at 26.5". This (under current law) will never be considered strictly a pistol. Pistols lose their assumed concealability at 26", this makes the gun a "firearm" per ATeeF definition (no buttstock, barrel under 16", but overall length over 26")

 

[indysims]

get the pistol upper with 10.5" barrel along with a midwest industries pistol buffer tube slightly longer than normal. This puts the overall length at 26.5". This (under current law) will never be considered strictly a pistol. Pistols lose their assumed concealability at 26", this makes the gun a "firearm" per ATeeF definition (no buttstock, barrel under 16", but overall length over 26")

Does this longer pistol buffer tube option remove some of the advantages one might have with a Indiana LTCH? Interstate reciprocity maybe? The ability to carry it loaded in your vehicle... concealed on your person... etc?

 

[Csquared]

As others have said, you lose some velocity/energy in that short of a barrel. you ALSO get a lot of extra bang&flash (regardless of muzzle device used -- this just redirects more of it forward)

This seems pricey to me. I'm sure you could get into a quality setup for $900-1200, then add a nice red dot.

PLEASE consider the following:
Buy an assembled pistol upper of your choice.
Buy a stripped lower and finish it yourself.
get the pistol upper with 10.5" barrel along with a midwest industries pistol buffer tube slightly longer than normal. This puts the overall length at 26.5". This (under current law) will never be considered strictly a pistol. Pistols lose their assumed concealability at 26", this makes the gun a "firearm" per ATeeF definition (no buttstock, barrel under 16", but overall length over 26")

Just curious as to why you say go with the pistol buffer tube that is a bit longer?? I must be missing something about overall length?
I guess I'm asking why it matters if the ATF classifies it as a firearm instead of of strictly a pistol?

 

[throttletony]

For me (I now live in Michigan), I don't have to register it as a pistol

All of the benefits of pistol can still apply (loaded and accessible in vehicle, etc)

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Copy of - 5.56 / .223

Built my AR pistol with MAS Defense parts. At the time, they had an 11.5" barrel option. Been very happy with the accuracy and reliability.

 

[Csquared]

Just browsing the Internet, I've come across the Daniel Defense Mk18 pistol, it MSRP's for close to 2k though.. anyone have any experience with it??

 

[88E30M50]

An AR pistol is not all that small and concealable. They are still sizeable weapons and unless you invest in a detachable barrel and folding stock mod, they don't conceal all that well. Mine is an 8.5 inch 300 BO built largely out of PSA parts and total cost was under $800. It's not a small pistol by any stretch. But, for HD with a suppressor, they are fantastic. Not small, but they handle very well and with a suppressor added, are around the size of a 14.5 inch AR with a pinned flash hider. Great HD weapons, but small and concealable are not the first things that come to mind when describing one.

 

[throttletony]

An AR pistol is not all that small and concealable. They are still sizeable weapons and unless you invest in a detachable barrel and folding stock mod, they don't conceal all that well. Mine is an 8.5 inch 300 BO built largely out of PSA parts and total cost was under $800. It's not a small pistol by any stretch. But, for HD with a suppressor, they are fantastic. Not small, but they handle very well and with a suppressor added, are around the size of a 14.5 inch AR with a pinned flash hider. Great HD weapons, but small and concealable are not the first things that come to mind when describing one.

^ this ^

Can OP clarify if we're talking about "in the back of the truck concealable," "in a bag" or "in a coat" --> The last is difficult/impossible

 

[Csquared]

^ this ^

Can OP clarify if we're talking about "in the back of the truck concealable," "in a bag" or "in a coat" --> The last is difficult/impossible

I wasn't talking about concealing in a coat, now behind the seat in a truck would be more feasible. Possibly in a Bug out bag for a SHTF situation. I realize it's not as concealable as a CC pistol, but would want something small and powerful for a bag in a SHTF situation

 

[Jeremy1066]

I think an explanation as to what makes this a "pistol" instead of an SBR (by noob definitions) has been overlooked. The reason the Spikes that you linked is considered a pistol is because the buffer tube does not have a stock and cannot accept a stock. If you were to add a stock, it would be considered an SBR.

 

[Csquared]

I think an explanation as to what makes this a "pistol" instead of an SBR (by noob definitions) has been overlooked. The reason the Spikes that you linked is considered a pistol is because the buffer tube does not have a stock and cannot accept a stock. If you were to add a stock, it would be considered an SBR.

That and if you add the shockwave blade or sig brace to it you CANNOT shoulder it.

 

[Jeremy1066]

That and if you add the shockwave blade or sig brace to it you CANNOT shoulder it.

brilliant, right?

 

[Csquared]

brilliant, right?

Oh yeah.. good 'ol ATeeEff

 

[throttletony]

yes, good clarifications.
I shouldn't assume that the reader or OP would know NFA restricitons. Since these forum posts stick around forever, I'll cover my butt
To clarify - if barrel is under 26" then don't put a stock on it and don't put a vert grip on it either. If you use the Sig brace, Shockwave, or similar, then don't shoulder it. I'm not a lawyer.

... here is where that longer buffer tube from Midwest Industries really shines. Since the tube itself - without any accessories - is vital to the functioning of the firearm, you can shoulder it. This does NOT fall under the same ruling as a brace/additional piece on the tube... at least under current understanding and application of the law. Who knows if the A-tee-eff will change their stance.

 

[Jeremy1066]

yes, good clarifications.
I shouldn't assume that the reader or OP would know NFA restricitons. Since these forum posts stick around forever, I'll cover my butt
To clarify - if barrel is under 26" then don't put a stock on it and don't put a vert grip on it either. If you use the Sig brace, Shockwave, or similar, then don't shoulder it. I'm not a lawyer.

... here is where that longer buffer tube from Midwest Industries really shines. Since the tube itself - without any accessories - is vital to the functioning of the firearm, you can shoulder it. This does NOT fall under the same ruling as a brace/additional piece on the tube... at least under current understanding and application of the law. Who knows if the A-tee-eff will change their stance.

But you CAN put an angled forgerip on a pistol.

 

[throttletony]

But you CAN put an angled forgerip on a pistol.

indeed!