AR Platform VS Bolt Action

[Justin727]

I have been thinking about buying / building a long range rifle. I have a few questions:

1. Should I go with a AR platform or a bolt action rifle? Why?

2. Make a caliber suggestion and if you care to, explain why you would choose said caliber. I have been looking at 7.62x51/.308, 30-06, and 5.56. I am open to anything, these are simply suggestions that have already been made to me.

 

[bigdaddy1427]

You should probably define what you mean by "Long Range". When I hear long range, I think over 800 yards. Some people think 300 yards is long range. It is really a matter of perspective.
Both have their advantages. Are you looking at fast follow up shots? If so, the AR platform would be the best. If you are looking at NRA type shooting, all shooting is done a single round at a time, so there is no advantage. I believe that both are capable of equal accuracy if built properly.
One thing a lot of people are doing is going to a custom made tube gun. It is a shooting system that usually uses a Rem. 700 action glued or bolted into a tube gun chassis. It also uses AR type stocks, pistol grips, and rail mount systems.
I think that the 308 and 223 are better suited to long range shooting if it is just at targets. They have both proven themselves at the long range game. The 223 bullet selection these days is pretty incredible compared to 10 years ago.
A lot also depends on if you are shooting factory ammo or loading your own. If you are shooting factory ammo, it is probably easier to get factory 308 or 30 06 rounds that will reach out to 1000 plus yards.

 

[Justin727]

You should probably define what you mean by "Long Range". When I hear long range, I think over 800 yards. Some people think 300 yards is long range. It is really a matter of perspective.
Both have their advantages. Are you looking at fast follow up shots? If so, the AR platform would be the best. If you are looking at NRA type shooting, all shooting is done a single round at a time, so there is no advantage. I believe that both are capable of equal accuracy if built properly.
One thing a lot of people are doing is going to a custom made tube gun. It is a shooting system that usually uses a Rem. 700 action glued or bolted into a tube gun chassis. It also uses AR type stocks, pistol grips, and rail mount systems.
I think that the 308 and 223 are better suited to long range shooting if it is just at targets. They have both proven themselves at the long range game. The 223 bullet selection these days is pretty incredible compared to 10 years ago.

I don't know of anywhere that I will shoot 800 yards. I am comfortable shooting my carbine length M4 with iron sights 300 meters out. So I guess to answer your question I am looking at something in between 300 and 800 meters. Probably not the answer you were looking for, I know.

I was advised by a coworker to go with 308 over the 223. His reasoning was that the heavier 308 round will stay more accurate further down range than the .223.

Having a fast follow up shot is not necessarily important to me.

 

[avboiler11]

What is "long range" to you?

Do you reload?

Is factory ammo availability/cost (ie. pick it up at Wally World) important to you?

What is your expectation of accuracy? MOA? Sub-MOA? Half MOA?

WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?

And almost as importantly as "what is your budget", What do YOU want?

 

[roadrunner681]

I don't know of anywhere that I will shoot 800 yards. I am comfortable shooting my carbine length M4 with iron sights 300 meters out. So I guess to answer your question I am looking at something in between 300 and 800 meters. Probably not the answer you were looking for, I know.

I was advised by a coworker to go with 308 over the 223. His reasoning was that the heavier 308 round will stay more accurate further down range than the .223.

Having a fast follow up shot is not necessarily important to me.

and the 6.5s will out shoot 308 normally, i would go with a short action savage, they have a barrel nut that allows you to change the barrel very easily. 6.5 creedmore is a very good factory load but i think 260 rem slightly out edges it if you reload. advantages of 6.5mm rounds high BC(.585 for hornady's AMAX) light recoil and very good ability to resist wind, disadvantages harder to find factory ammo, and a bit more expensive for match ammo. 30 caliber advantages availability of factory match ammo, wider bullet selection disadvantages more recoil, uses more powder( i think) lower BC which means more wind drift and drop. ether way get a good scope nothing else matters if your optics are junk.

 

[sgreen3]

Id go with a something along the lines of the Savage 10FP SR in either 223 or 308. Out of the box accuracy is outstanding with these rifles. An the prices is very reasonable. If your only shooting out to 300yrds a 223 with proper ammo will do just fine with practice. But if you think there may be a chance to shoot further go with the rifle in 308. There are many factory match loads to choose from for pretty reasonable prices if you don't handload. An there are countless numbers of components to load if you do hand load for either caliber.

 

[avboiler11]

My recommendation, without having the afore-asked questions answered, is:

Savage 12LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor.

26" bull contour barrel, very good HS Precision vertical grip stock, DBM. Its heavy, but there are many reports on the internet of it having very good accuracy. Plus Hornady 140gr A-Max Match ammo is about $26/box online.

I'm a HUGE 260 fan, but if I was getting my first 6.5 today I would skip the 260 and go with the Creedmoor.

Then again, for 800yd you could get a Savage 12FV, put it in a Bell & Carlson A2 Medalist stock, and shoot 77gr bullets at 2800-2900fps and still achieve good accuracy (albeit with more drop and drift than the 6.5 or even a 308/175 SMK combo).

 

[crazyj789]

Creedmoor all day Midway USA generally has 120 grain A-MAX or 140 grain A-MAX for $24-$26 a box of 20. My savage model 10ba in 6.5 creedmoor is a tack driver. I too have been on the fence of how close the AR has gotten to bolt rifle accuracy. I like the slow and steady approach of the bolt action. The AR's are nice like the OMEN or the LWRC Reaper but sometimes you just want to sling lead to fast to enjoy each shot.

 

[SILVERBACK]

OMEN NEMO in 300 win mag. That should work. BUT I DON'T HAVE 5 GRAND + burning a hole in my pocket.

 

[crazyj789]

It definitely takes more money in a semi-auto platform for consistent 1 MOA or less accuracy than it does in a bolt rifle. IMO

 

[warthog]

For what it is worth, I just went through the same thing, wanting to shoot long range without much care about follow up shots.

I finally went with a Ruger American Rifle in .308 caliber with a Vortex HT-S scope. I will shoot this out to 400 yards and beyond. I can get more specific if you want me to as well. You can spend a lot more money to get yourself a target rifle like a nice Rem 700 or a Savage or nicer Ruger but I am not going to compete against anyone but me. Also, I didn't want to drop thousands of dollars because I don't have thousands of dollars. This rifle I have been told won't be sub MOA at 1000 yards because it is a "hunting" rifle. However I have friends with similar set ups that are able to do just that so I suppose we will see how it goes for me.

 

[USMC-Johnson]

Just because its a pet peave of mine...if your rifle is sub MOA at 100 yards it is sub MOA at 25 yards and 2500 yards...

I know my remington 700 is about 1/2 moa and its chambered in 22-250 i have about 850-900 into it.

 

[sloughfoot]

You are one of few that I have met outside of the NRA High power match world who have the skills to make that so.

Too many rely on spending money on equipment instead of developing skills.

 

[Justin727]

What is "long range" to you?

Do you reload?

Is factory ammo availability/cost (ie. pick it up at Wally World) important to you?

What is your expectation of accuracy? MOA? Sub-MOA? Half MOA?

WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?

And almost as importantly as "what is your budget", What do YOU want?

Long range for me 300+ meters

I do not reload yet. I have made the decision to get into it but have not purchased any equipment yet. I am planning on getting up to profire soon but for now I am stocking up on components.

MOA is fine. Sub would be awesome but as long as I can maintain MOA I would be happy.

I am not going to say my budget is limitless but my thought is I don't want junk so if need be I will plan the build / purchase and budget it out to have it in the near future but not necessarily tomorrow. Fact is I don't need this rifle.. Hell I don't need half the firearms I have That being said, I would like to stay under $1k for the build (rifle, optic, bipod, and any other necessary accessories)

I guess I am leaning towards a bolt action rifle. I honestly don't know why tho.... I love the AR platform as well.

 

[Justin727]

Just because its a pet peave of mine...if your rifle is sub MOA at 100 yards it is sub MOA at 25 yards and 2500 yards...

I know my remington 700 is about 1/2 moa and its chambered in 22-250 i have about 850-900 into it.

Why did you go with the 22-250 round? To be clear.. I am not knockin the round, I know nothing about it.

 

[Justin727]

You are one of few that I have met outside of the NRA High power match world who have the skills to make that so.

Too many rely on spending money on equipment instead of developing skills.

Who is this post directed towards?

 

[Justin727]

I am just repeating gun shop talk.. and we all know what that is worth.. BUT I overheard some guys saying something to the effect of.. "remington 700 is the only way to go. Savage is okay but the action isnt nearly as smooth as the 700's"

Just curious as to your thoughts on that comment guys. Again I know nothing about these rifles. Just trying to make an educated decision here!

 

[avboiler11]

I am just repeating gun shop talk.. and we all know what that is worth.. BUT I overheard some guys saying something to the effect of.. "remington 700 is the only way to go. Savage is okay but the action isnt nearly as smooth as the 700's"

It is true that a 700 action is smoother than a Savage action, and I say that as guy with one 700 and four Savages in the safe. The 700 is also aesthetically prettier than a Savage action, tends to eject with more authority, has a somewhat larger aftermarket, and every rifle gunsmith in the country can work on one.

Its also true that if action smoothness dictates "the only way to go", one would skip right past the 700 and go to a Tikka since it makes the 700 feel like a gritty-azz Mosin. Most "gun shop guys" love the 700 because of its military heritage, as if the M24SWS was built on a 700 action because it is "the BEST".

How light and easy the bolt throw process is doesn't really mean anything when it comes to reliability or accuracy...and Savages tend to be quite very accurate out of the box.

 

[sgreen3]

There will be guys that prefer Savage rifles an then there will be those that only Prefer Remington rifles. It really boils down to which one you want. Both will do anything youll ever need it to do. But its hard to beat Savages out of the box accuracy for their price point.

 

[seedubs1]

No love for the cz varmint???

I'd stick with NATO ammunition if you're planning on putting lots of range time in. It'll keep cost down and parts for reloading and ammunition is easy to find and cheaper. So that means 5.56 or 7.62x51. Plus, they won't burn a barrel out as quick as something like a 22-250 (which you won't burn out hunting, but if you're using it a LOT for range use, you will).

If you're going to be hunting prairie dogs, coyotes, or other varmints, tailor the round to your needs...although pretty much every varmint hunter has a 223/5.56