AR SBR question

[sheepdog697]

As others have said. One lower you can use any upper on it (free to swap around). Just make sure you keep the original upper that was filed.

 

[MCgrease08]

Constructive intent...

Safest way is to either convert a pistol into SBR (after you get the stamp) or get the stamp for the lower and then get the short barrel.

Here's a hypothetical scenario to follow up on this:

Let's assume one already has an AR pistol and they want to build an SBR using the existing upper but they don't want to register the current pistol lower. Maybe they want to be able to keep it as a SBR in state, but swap in the pistol lower for purpose of traveling out of state. Maybe they just don't like the roll mark on the reviewer, or maybe they want an assembled lower from a different manufacturer. Whatever.

It sounds like if one were to simply buy a prebuilt carbine lower with stock, then Form 1 that lower, they would be running afoul of the constructive intent idea. Is it possible to order a carbine lower and store it off site (with a third party) until the stamp comes in, or is the only option to buy a pistol lower, file the Form 1, then add a stock after the stamp comes in and the receiver is engraved?

I mean, if someone already owns a pistol upper and an AR rifle, then they already have the components to build an SBR. Does that factor into anything at all?

We all know that these ATF rules are incredibly stupid and don't make much sense, but can someone really run afoul of the law if they own a complete rifle lower and a pistol length upper? Or does the intent portion only kick in after one puts in an application stating their intent to SBR that specific receiver?

 

[KJQ6945]

Here's a hypothetical scenario to follow up on this:

Let's assume one already has an AR pistol and they want to build an SBR using the existing upper but they don't want to register the current pistol lower. Maybe they want to be able to keep it as a SBR in state, but swap in the pistol lower for purpose of traveling out of state. Maybe they just don't like the roll mark on the reviewer, or maybe they want an assembled lower from a different manufacturer. Whatever.

It sounds like if one were to simply buy a prebuilt carbine lower with stock, then Form 1 that lower, they would be running afoul of the constructive intent idea. Is it possible to order a carbine lower and store it off site (with a third party) until the stamp comes in, or is the only option to buy a pistol lower, file the Form 1, then add a stock after the stamp comes in and the receiver is engraved?

I mean, if someone already owns a pistol upper and an AR rifle, then they already have the components to build an SBR. Does that factor into anything at all?

We all know that these ATF rules are incredibly stupid and don't make much sense, but can someone really run afoul of the law if they own a complete rifle lower and a pistol length upper? Or does the intent portion only kick in after one puts in an application stating their intent to SBR that specific receiver?

I think you are missing the point of the constructive intent. In your scenario, you have a pistol lower, that could have any number of uppers. Having a complete carbine lower, waiting for a stamp sitting next to it in the safe, I don't think would be a problem. You made your intentions to be legal obvious, when you sent them $200 and filled out the paperwork. Where people seem to run into problems, is when they get raided for whatever reason, and you've got short barreled uppers, carbine lowers, and no pistol or SBR lower to legally mount them to. That's when the interrogation would start. If you have no legal means to use what you possess, it makes your intentions to be illegal fairly obvious.

Constructive Intent, is basically, conspiracy to commit. Were you taking obvious steps towards breaking the law, or can you come up with a reasonable explanation, that is legal, for the items you possess? If you can't, you shouldn't have them in your possession. I'm not a lawyer or an ATF agent, but I think the internet has turned the ATF into the boogie man. Just my 2 cents.

 

[cbhausen]

How about this scenario? I have a pistol lower with an SB tactical SBA3 brace which happens to fit on a standard mil-spec diameter buffer tube. This lower has an 8 1/2 inch 300 blackout upper pinned to it; perfectly legal as a pistol...

But I also build ARs as evidenced by lots of other parts in my safe and happen to have a Magpul stock stored in the same safe as the pistol which fits on the same buffer tube...

I have no intention whatsoever of putting the two together and making an illegal SBR but if someone came to take a look how could my word ever carry the day over theirs? I’m Joe Blow from Kokomo and they are ATF.

 

[MCgrease08]

I think you are missing the point of the constructive intent. In your scenario, you have a pistol lower, that could have any number of uppers. Having a complete carbine lower, waiting for a stamp sitting next to it in the safe, I don't think would be a problem. You made your intentions to be legal obvious, when you sent them $200 and filled out the paperwork. Where people seem to run into problems, is when they get raided for whatever reason, and you've got short barreled uppers, carbine lowers, and no pistol or SBR lower to legally mount them to. That's when the interrogation would start. If you have no legal means to use what you possess, it makes your intentions to be illegal fairly obvious.

Constructive Intent, is basically, conspiracy to commit. Were you taking obvious steps towards breaking the law, or can you come up with a reasonable explanation, that is legal, for the items you possess? If you can't, you shouldn't have them in your possession. I'm not a lawyer or an ATF agent, but I think the internet has turned the ATF into the boogie man. Just my 2 cents.

I'm sure you're right. But based on the law, I'm sure the ATF could try and jam somebody up pretty good in a case like that if they really wanted to. Ultimately it might not be successful, but it probably wouldn't be cheap or easy to defend against it either if they really wanted to try and make somebody's life suck.

 

[IronsKeeper]

I'm not a lawyer or an ATF agent, but I think the internet has turned the ATF into the boogie man. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with much of what you say, but the shot dogs don't help their image.

*Ba-dum-cha*

Anyway, I personally don't need an official letter to think keeping the upper you filed with the ATF as your official SBR configuration is a good idea. Even if it's just advice from others, I see it as good advice. If you really want to sell that upper, file a change with them. But you can literally build an upper to sit on an SBR for "permanent" use for about $150 (reuse the bolt from another). $40 barrel, $55 upper, random gas tube, block, cheap handguard. Bam.

I would like to see that you can swap uppers in an official letter, but really that's easily done if I really wanted to..

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