AR side sights?

[FiReBReTHa]

I own a set of diamondhead D45s and have a couple of tid bits to throw in.

The other sits that are offset on mounts are a potential snag hazard depending on what kind of barricade (if any) shooting you do. Just something to keep in mind.

The additional offset rail adds a bit of weight (negligible, but still gets factored in)

Shooting at an angle, ALWAYS makes you look cooler if there is a slight breeze to rattle your hair.



The reason I went with the D45s (aside from them being simply awesome)
is that they store underneath your optic and deploy into a 45 degree setup only when needed. I replaced the front post with a smaller .34 KNS instead of the larger post they came with.

 

[Aaron1776]

Whenever I see 45* sights on an AR, I can't help but think




No offense.

Beyond high speed professional 3 gun competitions I just don't see the point.

If you have an AR for home defense.....why does it have anything but a red dot/ iron sight set up?

If you have an AR for marksmanship shooting, why are you shooting it in close? And, if you're shooting in close.....why not just back the scope off to the standard x2 or x4?

Whenever you buy gear or guns....remember the mission you want it for and what it was designed to do. You'll spend a lot less money and you'll have gear optimized for its intended use. The more crap you have hanging off the rifle, the heavier it is, the more expensive it is, the more it gets caught on stuff, bangs into stuff (I can just see a mall ninja whacking his 45 degree sight off the corner of something now and scratching/cracking the lense), and the more things there are to break and or maintain.

 

[LD36]

Precision rifles with higher power scopes need to be just as battle ready as CQ guns. I'd rather have my rifle be ready for anything and be labeled a "mall ninja" than have a gun thats only suited for one application. If you want to limit your guns capabilities, by all means. But I'll keep mine ready for any situation.

 

[bigcraig]

I have a set of the Dueck Defense offset irons on one of my ARs. For the application and the role that gun is set up for, they work perfectly.

Apparently, I am a mall ninja.

 

[FireBirdDS]

Precision rifles with higher power scopes need to be just as battle ready as CQ guns. I'd rather have my rifle be ready for anything and be labeled a "mall ninja" than have a gun thats only suited for one application. If you want to limit your guns capabilities, by all means. But I'll keep mine ready for any situation.

Could you describe a "defensive" situation in Bloomington IN you're expecting to face where you're "defensively" engaging a target at 100-200+yds (or whatever) where you're expecting to have to go from long range to CQ in that kind of a pinch?

 

[Aaron1776]

Precision rifles with higher power scopes need to be just as battle ready as CQ guns. I'd rather have my rifle be ready for anything and be labeled a "mall ninja" than have a gun thats only suited for one application. If you want to limit your guns capabilities, by all means. But I'll keep mine ready for any situation.

Yes. This is typical "mall ninja" speak.

I have a set of the Dueck Defense offset irons on one of my ARs. For the application and the role that gun is set up for, they work perfectly.

Apparently, I am a mall ninja.

Without knowing how your rifle is applied, I can't comment.

Could you describe a "defensive" situation in Bloomington IN you're expecting to face where you're "defensively" engaging a target at 100-200+yds (or whatever) where you're expecting to have to go from long range to CQ in that kind of a pinch?

THIS.
We aren't scout snipers in Iraq fighting the Madi Army....and even then I knew some of those guys and their weapons were always dedicated to their job....not some hybrid purpose. (You've really f-ed up if suddenly your hide is being overrun) They would just back off the zoom. But at least then I could see the purpose.

This is America. There is no realistic senario where your home defense AR-15 is ever going to get deployed at long range and then suddenly close range. Thus, not only can you afford to optimize your gun for its intended purpose, but it behooves you to do so.

You're betting your life on this gun. Make it 100% dedicated to its job.

The only realistic senario where you're going to engage long distance and then close is 3-gun/ multi-gun. And even then only in the high speed divisions is it allowed.

As fun as it is to shoot at 45 degrees. It's simply not remotely optimal for CQB, and, if you're betting your life on that AR-15, then it needs its optimal set up for close in fighting.....which is exactly the range you're going to use it.

What's the common use of a scoped AR in IN? Shooting cyotes.
You running into lots of Taliban when you're hunting 'yotes in the mountains of Indiana???

Sounds like extra BS gear to waste time and money on.....when you could be spending that time and money in training.

Don't get your ego wrapped up into your gear. If you want to excel, seek to find where simple and efficient intersect. There you will reach optimization.

Mindset>Training>Gear

 

[LD36]

Nobody said anything about being snipers in Iraq, or snipers ANYWHERE. There is a difference between a precision rifle and a sniper rifle. My particular rifle that i was discussing is set up for multiple purposes and I train on it (more than you Im sure) ... On duty and on my own time. It doesn't have to be a defensive situation... In fact my job can require that I be on the offensive. No, this isnt my patrol rifle, but it could easily do the job and I take it to my rifle courses.

I guess having a DO ALL rifle makes me a delusional moron. Clearly you guys have it all figured out. Wtf is a mall ninja anyways?

 

[LD36]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. To the OP... Angled sights are good to have when you have a magnified optic. Optics/scopes can fail. If you want to have a Back Up Iron Site, then these are a good choice

 

[newdumdum9825]

I wish I had a 1/4 of Jerry Miculek's talent

Id settle for for his daughter

 

[Classic]

I wish I had a 1/4 of Jerry Miculek's talent

Hard work and long hours on the range, not talent.

 

[Aaron1776]

Calm down there partner. We're discussing the validity of 45 degree sights, not the validity of your manhood.

Nobody said anything about being snipers in Iraq, or snipers ANYWHERE.

So you admit that you don't really have a realistic need for "multi-purpose" rifle then?

There is a difference between a precision rifle and a sniper rifle.

Really? Gee. I learned something here.

My particular rifle that i was discussing is set up for multiple purposes and I train on it (more than you Im sure) ... On duty and on my own time. It doesn't have to be a defensive situation... In fact my job can require that I be on the offensive. No, this isnt my patrol rifle, but it could easily do the job and I take it to my rifle courses.

So
1-You admit you have a patrol rifle suited for your actual job and it doesn't have 45 degree sights.
2-You still haven't described a likely senario where your job (assuming you're a cop since you called it a "patrol rifle") will have you blasting taliban at 200 yards and then whacking gang bangers at 10 yards.
3-As for the training, you probably train more on a rifle more than me now. Although, unless you train every day 365 days a year, it's unlikely that you realistically train more than I do overall. I figured out that, while living here in Indiana, a pistol was my primary weapon (if you're a cop it's yours too), and a shotgun suited my long gun needs better. But to each his own. I still love my AR and have fun with it. In fact next year I'll take a refresher course with it once the price of ammo comes back down. It's been since 2011 that I did my last official carbine class.

4- As you still haven't described the situation in which you will realistically use your rifle (which isn't even your patrol rifle and likely sits at home all day) at a distance and then immediately up close, that tells me that the chances of you using it in that matter are precisely zero.

Which means at the end of the day you just have extra BS hanging off the end of your gun which is just more expensive, time consuming, adds weight, and leads to this:

a potential snag hazard depending on what kind of barricade (if any) shooting you do. Just something to keep in mind.

Cuz you know, in realistic setting you'd never have to shoot or move around a barricade.



So I ask why the more expensive, sub-optimal set up? So you can relive your last Call Of Duty match out on the range? I mean if that's the answer, that's fine, but don't pretend like it's doing you any good or making you better prepared for a real fight.


I mean if you really want to have a "multi-purpose" rifle, why not also hang a bayonet on it for melee? Or heck, get yourself an under-slung .203. You never know. It could come in handy when we all start living like Mad Max. Have you considered an IR laser with a matching NOD too? I mean, heck, that last one might even be useful as most encounters happen at night!

I guess having a DO ALL rifle makes me a delusional moron. Clearly you guys have it all figured out. Wtf is a mall ninja anyways?

No one here called you a moron. We simply questioned the validity of your AR set up and suggested that you could better serve yourself by optimizing your AR for it's purpose rather than trying to turn it into the swiss army knife of rifles.


A Mall Ninja can be hard to explain. It's like porn, hard to define but you know it when you see it.
Basically they have one common thread. In the search of the ultimate gear/guns that can solve any problem, they buy all sorts of tacticool BS, profane their weapons with crap they don't need and just get in the way, and think it makes them better prepared for a real fight.

Not trying to say you're incompetent. Just pointing out reality.



Mindset>Training>Gear

 

[LD36]

Well, this needs to stop. After all, you know what they say about arguing over the internet.. . Once again, an all purpose rifle isn't a bad thing and has its uses. You can have your opinion on whats practical and I'll have mine. Agree to disagree

 

[MikeDVB]

Wow D-45s are nice but veeeeery expensive.

 

[bigcraig]

Well, the gun I have my offset irons on has a magnified optic on it, and since all guns that may be used in a serious situation should have a BUIS, the offset irons make perfect since. However, with most things it will still boil down to personal preference and what one is willing to train with and become accustomed to.

Also, note, that the competition world has been driving innovation in combat arms for decades. For example the evolution of a RDS use on current issue M4s is a direct result of experiences gleaned from the "gaming" community with the added ease of teaching its use. That said, IMHO, non-powered BUIS are still a very important piece of kit that should be part of any gun that may be used in a "serious" situation.

Critics of how folks set up their personal arms like to befoul others choices, citing their own dogma on what they think everybody else should have. This is a bit short sighted, IMHO of course. While many of us lowly citizens will never need a full kitted out combat weapon system, it is ironic that folks that deem themselves as "been there, done that" operators always cite situations they feel will never happen here in the USA, but yet tell folks train, train and then train some more.

In the end, if a product stirs an interest and you have the money, give it shot. The worst that can happen is you wasted money, that is your right, but you never know, you might find that new whiz-bang piece of kit suits you just fine.

Also, note, anybody can jump on a computer and expound his personal dogma and delicately throw the terms "mall ninja" and "moron" about. Take their advice with a grain of salt, some of it maybe good, some, not so much.

 

[Aaron1776]

Well, this needs to stop. After all, you know what they say about arguing over the internet.. . Once again, an all purpose rifle isn't a bad thing and has its uses. You can have your opinion on whats practical and I'll have mine. Agree to disagree

Agreed.

Also, note, that the competition world has been driving innovation in combat arms for decades. For example the evolution of a RDS use on current issue M4s is a direct result of experiences gleaned from the "gaming" community with the added ease of teaching its use.

It's also created a lot of crap that only has use within a competition setting.

That said, IMHO, non-powered BUIS are still a very important piece of kit that should be part of any gun that may be used in a "serious" situation.

Still haven't heard what "serious" situation is going to demand 200 yards then 10 yard engagement here in IN.

Critics of how folks set up their personal arms like to befoul others choices, citing their own dogma on what they think everybody else should have. This is a bit short sighted, IMHO of course. While many of us lowly citizens will never need a full kitted out combat weapon system, it is ironic that folks that deem themselves as "been there, done that" operators always cite situations they feel will never happen here in the USA, but yet tell folks train, train and then train some more.

It's not dogmatic to constantly question why you have set up A or training system B. It keeps us honest, helps us avoid wasting time and money, and makes us better in the end. The reason why people tell you to "train, train, train" is because at the end of the day it's your brain and the training that will save your life. Not the gear.

Also, note, anybody can jump on a computer and expound his personal dogma and delicately throw the terms "mall ninja" and "moron" about. Take their advice with a grain of salt, some of it maybe good, some, not so much.

Again, I never called anyone a moron. I just simply stated my view and then backed it up with a very logical argument.

If y'all want to hang a 45 degree sight on your gun, enjoy....especially if you're doing high speed 3 gun competitions. Just understand the reality that the likelihood of you ever using it beyond that is precisely nill, so think hard before spending the money on it.

 

[bigcraig]

Again, all your opinion.

Asking for a specific serious situation, is akin to asking why carry a gun at all. I can spin up some BS situations that would require a Barret .50bmg for the best tool for the job. Murphys law and all that!

Training is very important and lets face it, most "situations" can be avoided altogether with common sense and good situational awareness.

I see you are not fond of the gaming community, and must ask what specific reason why? As well as what aspect of it that you feel is "crap". I know you will throw the whole tactics card at this, you know, "this will get you killed" stuff, but what else? If good tactics are used, why would fast, accurate and skillful gun handling be bad?

Please, Aaron1776, don't be mistaken by my comments, I am a fellow that likes to keep things simple as well. But, I am open minded when it comes to gun gear, as I have learned in the past that simply dismissing a product because it doesn't fit my dogma doesn't mean it has no use for others, especially some one who has seen them, and is curious as to the use, from folks that have actually used such a product.

That said, I am sorry I am unable to use the multi-quote feature as well as I should. I am too busy loading ammo for tomorrows USPSA match and doing some dry fire drills, also doing some tune up work on my HD suppressed SBR, it needed some love.

Cheers!

 

[Cerberus]

This is America. There is no realistic senario where your home defense AR-15 is ever going to get deployed at long range and then suddenly close range.

Take this for what it's worth, but this statement is the most sheep minded thing I've read in this entire thread. While I personally don't need sights to engage close in targets, some might feel more comfortable with them.
"It Could never happen here."

 

[LD36]

Take this for what it's worth, but this statement is the most sheep minded thing I've read in this entire thread. While I personally don't need sights to engage close in targets, some might feel more comfortable with them.
"It Could never happen here."

Kinda what I was thinking. To think we can't experience civil unrest or worse in this country is naive.

 

[N_K_1984]

You can call names all you want, but when my Brother in Law built his AR10 for hunting in Colorado, he threw offset 45 degree iron sights on, along with his Leupold MK4 LR/T, I thought he was crazy (this was me clearly name calling). But he has experience hiking/hunting in CO and said he wanted the offset irons for any close up shots he might have to take.

This is of course an example of knowing your mission. His rifle is not a battle rifle, it's more designed around hunting. However, to back up LD36, if (and I'm not saying it will) the S hits the F, (i've seen my bro-in-law use his rifle) he could easily defend family and home with it, close and long range.

I don't have 45 degree sights on any of my rifles, but I'm not opposed to them; even outside of a 3-Gun/competition realm. My money would be on the Dueck Defense sights though. They were designed and developed around years of competitive training and shooting by man who knows his way around a rifle.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

Cuz you know, in realistic setting you'd never have to shoot or move around a barricade.



So I ask why the more expensive, sub-optimal set up? So you can relive your last Call Of Duty match out on the range? I mean if that's the answer, that's fine, but don't pretend like it's doing you any good or making you better prepared for a real fight.


I mean if you really want to have a "multi-purpose" rifle, why not also hang a bayonet on it for melee? Or heck, get yourself an under-slung .203. You never know. It could come in handy when we all start living like Mad Max. Have you considered an IR laser with a matching NOD too? I mean, heck, that last one might even be useful as most encounters happen at night!




Mindset>Training>Gear

Correct, barricades can snag if not properly utilized, granted practical application and training are essential to every component, but in the game of minimizing issues while in use has to be factored in.

Preparation comes down to knowing its usage, and applying things with common sense and practicality in mind. It's like common sense, not everyone chooses to use it.

...the bayonet is a good idea on the other hand, plus it helps with surprise Smores.

I guess i feel like I don't have to pretend that it makes a difference and just train to make a difference.