Are hollow points really better?

[ckcollins2003]

It is because the center of gravity of the projectile is moved back farther making it more stable in flight.

Isn't that the reason bullets are tapered? Even my .40's are tapered at the front so the center of gravity is more towards the back. I've never seen a cylinder shaped bullet before.

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I think people think the hollow points are more accurate because it gives them more confidence. Maybe the hollow point fits where their sights are set up at better as well, but I can find 0 scientific data that proves hollow points are more accurate.

Lots of "he said/she said", but we all know how that is.

Edit: It seems Wikipedia agrees with you when it comes to rifle loads. As for handgun loads, no difference due to distance.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

In my experience, I can tell no difference in accuracy between JHP and HP handgun bullets.

 

[Tactical Flannel]

Isn't that the reason bullets are tapered? Even my .40's are tapered at the front so the center of gravity is more towards the back. I've never seen a cylinder shaped bullet before.

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I think people think the hollow points are more accurate because it gives them more confidence. Maybe the hollow point fits where their sights are set up at better as well, but I can find 0 scientific data that proves hollow points are more accurate.

Lots of "he said/she said", but we all know how that is.

Edit: It seems Wikipedia agrees with you when it comes to rifle loads. As for handgun loads, no difference due to distance.

I believe that typical HPs are more accurate because they generally are more consistant from round to round, lot to lot.
I've seen alot of variation between FMJ rounds that leads me to believe that the tolerances of FMJ/practice ammo isn't as close/tight as with the 'premium' HP ammo.

As far as why a hollow point over a FMJ/ball round, I believe its already been said. The hollow point will expand on entry (theoretically) making a larger wound cavity and (hopefully) not exiting. This will deposit all of its energy into the target, less likely to over penetration creating potential collateral damage/injuries, causing more trauma to the inards of the bullet catcher. Sounds like a win-win-win to me.

Stay safe.

 

[mac45]

I've never seen a cylinder shaped bullet before.

Here ya go

Meister Hard Cast Bullets 32 Cal (312 Diameter) 100 Grain Lead Double-Ended Wadcutter Box of 500

Rainier LeadSafe Bullets 38 Cal (357 Diameter) 148 Grain Plated Double-Ended Wadcutter

Only good for punching nice smooth holes in paper, but generally very accurate.

 

[handgun]

I think some people made some good points.

I choose hornady CD for all my carry guns. 380 and 9mm para. That is my choice.

But, some guns just dont reliability feed hp ammo. So that might be a deciding factor.

The cost could also be another factor. While at the range i use ball/target ammo. For a simple no brainer reasons!. Its cheaper!

I notice on the paper targets at the range the premium ammo aka hp seems to punch a "cleaner" hole on the paper. But ehh who knows.

Also depends on someones objectives. There are different cal bullets for different applications. A 22 isnt going to defeat a cast iron engine block but a .50 bmg round will.. i have yet to see a hollow bmg round.

 

[Broom_jm]

There are entire books, many of them, devoted to this topic. The FBI crime lab has done exhaustive testing of various cartridges, and the bullets they fire. There is no one size fits all...that's the ONLY rule you can state that holds true.

There are two sliding scales of "effectiveness", which is a highly subjective term to begin with. You want penetration, but not too much, which seems to favor FMJ/ball ammo in smaller cartridges. You also want expansion/energy transfer, but not so much that penetration is compromised, which seems to favor HP ammo in larger cartridges.

Most guys who choose FMJ/ball ammo shoot either a small caliber which lacks mass and velocity, so they don't always penetrate well with a hollow-point bullet, or a truly large caliber. Your buddy could be shooting a 45ACP instead of the 380. In that caliber, you don't need a bullet to expand, just penetrate...a 45 caliber hole is already big enough! (It also experiences plenty of natural resistance, due to the large "pre-expanded" frontal area.)

For all of those rounds that lie in-between, most of them have sufficient velocity and mass to penetrate, indeed OVER-penetrate, with ball ammo. These rounds (9mm, 38, 357, 40) are usually best-served with a HP bullet that will penetrate and expand, doing the greatest amount of damage to the BG.

IMHO, YMMV, n' all that.

 

[TaunTaun]

A good site to check out that does experiments, etc with various types of ammo is:

The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

Lots of good info. And if nothing else, go out and test the ammo yourself and make your OWN opinion of what will work best for you.

 

[Bang-bang]

It's better to use in order to prevent over penetration and harming someone else unintentionally.

+1 very true

 

[ckcollins2003]

I believe that typical HPs are more accurate because they generally are more consistant from round to round, lot to lot.
I've seen alot of variation between FMJ rounds that leads me to believe that the tolerances of FMJ/practice ammo isn't as close/tight as with the 'premium' HP ammo.

Oh I'll guarantee that companies up the QC on their self defense rounds more than their bulk pack target rounds, but I'm only talking bullet here, not load.

Say you're reloading, you use the exact same load for a FMJ and a HP, both target bullets, both from the same manufacturer, everything is the same except one is round nose and the other is HP. Handgun ammo only, do you still believe you'll see a difference in accuracy between the two?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I for one shoot nothing but ball ammo, my theory is that I would rather have something bleeding from two holes instead of one. just my opinion.

I'd be a lil more worried about where that round ends up after it exits the BG's body.

 

[mssmith44]

"Say you're reloading, you use the exact same load for a FMJ and a HP, both target bullets, both from the same manufacturer, everything is the same except one is round nose and the other is HP. Handgun ammo only, do you still believe you'll see a difference in accuracy between the two?"

Shooter A shooting from a rest. NO
Shooter B shooting from a rest. NO
Gun from ransom rest. NO
Barrel only in special jig in ransom rest. yes but likely to be .25 inch at 25 yards for one. and .22 inch at 25 yards for the other.
This is only a possible scenario, but it would be enough for a professional shooter to select one over the other.

 

[turnandshoot4]

I don't think the type of ammo matters.

I believe it is:
50% shot placement
50% luck

I've seen rounds expand perfectly and tear up everything in their path on a CT.
I've also seen a round expand perfectly and not hit a darn thing, somehow going AROUND everything vital. Again confirmed on a CT.

When it is your time it is your time.

Shot placement is usually a for sure thing, but not always. I had someone come in shot in the bridge of the nose with an exit wound in the back of the head. He was asking how his nose looked. 50% luck.

I train with ball ammo.
I compete with ball ammo.
I carry ball ammo.

6mm of expansion won't help you if you are 6 inches off. Most people who carry can't shoot well, let alone under stress with some +p+ rounds.

 

[rvb]

some other reasons I use jhp over fmj for competition use (completely asside from defensive discussions).

1) slightly neater hole for scoring (not as neet as wad or swc, but profile is closer to fmj for reliable feeding).

2) I use zero bullets. the bottom of the jhp bullet is also jacketed, where the lead is exposed in the fmjs. That leads to less leading in comps and silencers, and less cleaning the bore (less smoke, too).

3) also with zeros, the jhps have a "step" taper on the base, where the fmjs do not, so seating is easier. No 'balancing' the bullet on the case, and I can reload faster.

4) oal is more consistent since the die presses on the nose vs the o-give of the bullet.

For only $4 per 1000 difference, those reasons alone are enough.

-rvb

 

[Fullmag]

Say you're reloading, you use the exact same load for a FMJ and a HP, both target bullets, both from the same manufacturer, everything is the same except one is round nose and the other is HP. Handgun ammo only, do you still believe you'll see a difference in accuracy between the two?

For the test to work properly it would require a very good shot, someone that quite consistent. For target rounds (in handguns) here is another twist, wadcutters or semi wadcutters are pretty much flat nosed bullets, they are extremely accurate and used in a lot competitions. At handgun velocities don't think it's really aerodynamics but spin and balance.

 

[badmac183]

I think some people made some good points.

I choose hornady CD for all my carry guns. 380 and 9mm para. That is my choice.

But, some guns just dont reliability feed hp ammo. So that might be a deciding factor.

The cost could also be another factor. While at the range i use ball/target ammo. For a simple no brainer reasons!. Its cheaper!

I notice on the paper targets at the range the premium ammo aka hp seems to punch a "cleaner" hole on the paper. But ehh who knows.

Also depends on someones objectives. There are different cal bullets for different applications. A 22 isnt going to defeat a cast iron engine block but a .50 bmg round will.. i have yet to see a hollow bmg round.

Now you have.

 

[Hogwylde]

A bullets energy is mass times velocity. Two equal weight bullets going the same velocity have the same energy. However, a hollowpoint bullet that expands properly and stops in a body, no matter where it hits, dumps ALL of its energy into the body. A FMJ that drills all the way thru the body and keeps going delivers less energy to the body and retains some of its energy to keep going.

Shot placement is the most important element. However, in the heat of the moment...i would imagine most people are lucky just to hit their targets....let alone AIM for a specific area for maximum effective shot placement. With that in mind, wouldn't you want maximum energy delivered in order to increase the effectiveness of your hit no matter where it hits?

 

[Adamz04]

They are usualy better at not overpenatrating.

this.....a quality hollow point will penetrate 10-15 inches, which is what u want it to do. a fmj will go 20+
i like fmj for carrying in the woods, hollow point for everthing else

 

[Tombs]

I believe the argument between ball and HP is pretty well pointless unless we're talking about things like the montana gold bullet, or other designs not really meant to expand.

Where I believe a valid question exists, is comparing a WFN, SWC, or WC to a HP.

I like the idea of having the ability to structurally disable an attacker more than put a bunch of numbers into their torso and hope for the best.

There's no reason why an effective hunting bullet wouldn't be just as effective on 2 legged creatures.

I don't see energy dump meaning anything until we're talking about extremely high velocity small rounds, such as a 357 sig, or a 115gr 9mm +P+. Then that energy dump actually means something. Below around 1300fps, might as well forget that entire concept because you're just poking a hole, expansion just means you're putting the brakes on unless the petals are cutting tissue. This is why my EDC load is the corbon 185gr 45acp+P. It's less of a hollow point and more of a giant copper slug with nasty little blades.

 

[Tactical Flannel]

Oh I'll guarantee that companies up the QC on their self defense rounds more than their bulk pack target rounds, but I'm only talking bullet here, not load.

Say you're reloading, you use the exact same load for a FMJ and a HP, both target bullets, both from the same manufacturer, everything is the same except one is round nose and the other is HP. Handgun ammo only, do you still believe you'll see a difference in accuracy between the two?

In a short answer, yes.
My experiences have been that you will see a more consistant performance out of HPs than FMJs.
One shot to one shot, don't know.
100 HPS shot vs 100 FMJs shot using your criteria, I'd say yes. But then again we are talking handgun distances so i the BIG scheme of things will it matter... doubt it. The variances won't be enough to matter. As in MOT (minute of threat). But HPs will generally be more consistant shot to shot than FMJs is all I was saying.

Stay safe

 

[U.S. Patriot]

From what I have seen in terms of actual dimensions, JHP bullets seems to be more consistent. Is it going to make a huge difference at short range? I have yet to see.