Armed Robbery at Store

[VUPDblue]

**** print. I have seen the dead bodies that result. The media around here is full of beans anyway.

 

[churchmouse]

**** print. I have seen the dead bodies that result. The media around here is full of beans anyway.

THat is exactly my point. Reliable folks stating facts contrary to someones beliefs or understanding and they always come back with the same crap....provide a "LINK" or it ain't true.

My edc holster is a Serpa as I have seen the zomby's eyeballing sidearms before. If they will grab a purse the will surely grab a gun. It is worth so much more than a purse. A purse could be empty.....gun is a done deal.

 

[SteveM4A1]

You called yourself that not me, but as far as people who don't act to help people in grave danger that's the term I'd use.
i don't seek out trouble (like a Zimmerman), I stay away from known bad areas, I do my best to remain situationally aware, even making sure I'm not followed home. I wouldn't want to get in the middle but if I'm forced I can tell you I'll be fighting and maybe dying but i won't be tied up on the floor or executed because I cooperated with a POS criminal.

I wouldn't be tied up either. If using the situation in the story, if I were close to an exit, I would be out that door if by myself. If not, I would be fighting as well. I wouldn't be fighting to save everyone else's life, but my own. My objective is to avoid situations like this, and if one arises, find the quickest and safest way out of it as possible.

 

[kiddchaos]

Many variables.
If the bad guys are all up in you from the start, you're out of luck.
If you are quick to react, you might be able to slip out the back, or take a defensive position somewhere. Unlikely.
Now if they came in and just started shooting everyone, shooting back is the option, if you get the chance.

 

[88GT]

I have seen it happen twice since I have been in LE in Marion County. It's not the kind of detail that's often released to the media.

Is that "lots of times" though? Two incidents relative to how many where it didn't happen? How many years have you been in LE? Even allowing for the fact that the 2 you have seen aren't the only ones that have occurred, I think the claim that it happens "lots of time" is a bit of a stretch. Unless it's one of those "once is one too many" arguments.

No doubt it happens. But all things are based on risk assessment. I doubt the risk of having my firearm used against me is greater than any of the times I might need to use it to defend myself. Statistically speaking, of course. We all play the numbers. Some just play different ones.

 

[VUPDblue]

I have been in LE in Marion county for a smidge over two years. I figure if I have seen it twice in one county, then it stands to reason that it is not an uncommon occurrence.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I've had gun grabs on both OC and once on a CC who ran his mouth about how he carried a bit too much. He went to sell a long gun to a friend of a friend, and when he was handing the long gun over the "friend" snatched his sidearm out of his holster and held him up with it. My last OC guy was working on his car in his driveway and got ambushed, 3:1 odds and gave up his gun. The last CC guy I'm aware of (not my case, driveway guy was my last one) was working on a house and multiple males surrounded him. He also gave up his gun during a pat down, but it wasn't a "grab", it was a full shakedown.

I'm sure we're all saying "that's not me, I have better situational awareness" and maybe that's true, maybe its not, but regardless 3:1 is long odds. The only guy I've got first hand knowledge of who decided to go against 3:1 odds was a delivery man who pulled on #1 and #2 and immediately got gunned down from behind by #3, who he was previously unaware of. They fled and he lived, but not sure it was worth not handing over the food and the cash.

I'm definitely not saying you can't engage and prevail. They may flee if they aren't real dedicated to the cause. Their guns may not all be real or functioning. The problem is you have no way of knowing that up front. You may just be that good and that lucky, especially if you can get the drop on them. Just realize that you are escalating the situation when you pull, and sometimes the good guys win and sometimes they don't.

 

[SteveM4A1]

I've had gun grabs on both OC and once on a CC who ran his mouth about how he carried a bit too much. He went to sell a long gun to a friend of a friend, and when he was handing the long gun over the "friend" snatched his sidearm out of his holster and held him up with it. My last OC guy was working on his car in his driveway and got ambushed, 3:1 odds and gave up his gun. The last CC guy I'm aware of (not my case, driveway guy was my last one) was working on a house and multiple males surrounded him. He also gave up his gun during a pat down, but it wasn't a "grab", it was a full shakedown.

I'm sure we're all saying "that's not me, I have better situational awareness" and maybe that's true, maybe its not, but regardless 3:1 is long odds. The only guy I've got first hand knowledge of who decided to go against 3:1 odds was a delivery man who pulled on #1 and #2 and immediately got gunned down from behind by #3, who he was previously unaware of. They fled and he lived, but not sure it was worth not handing over the food and the cash.

I'm definitely not saying you can't engage and prevail. They may flee if they aren't real dedicated to the cause. Their guns may not all be real or functioning. The problem is you have no way of knowing that up front. You may just be that good and that lucky, especially if you can get the drop on them. Just realize that you are escalating the situation when you pull, and sometimes the good guys win and sometimes they don't.

I don't believe you. Every criminal runs away instantly from the sight of an OCed handgun! That person must have been OCing a tiny glock instead of the scary 1911.

 

[vstrom]

I go to this particular store quite often. I only live a mile away from it. I had not heard about the robbery until a couple days after. My wife asked me what would I have done if we had been in that store at the time. My first comment back to her: "Holy Crap...three against one?". The only thing I could tell her for sure was I would not be herded into the back room and tied up. When she asked me about it, I was researching the internet for possiblilities on a CCW holster for my new Sig Fastback Carry 1911. I immediately gave up the search for the time being. I instead ordered 2 additional magazines for my PPQ.

 

[Jack Burton]

...sometimes the good guys win and sometimes they don't.

This goes along with the concept that sometimes you don't get to choose between good and bad, instead you are forced into a choice between bad and worse.

In my far younger days of working retail in E. St. Louis I far too personally know the experience of being totally, 100 percent at the mercy of thugs who are just as likelly to kill as to not. It won't happen again. I may fall into the "don't win" category that day, but I'll do my best to drag at least one of the SOBs along with me.

 

[Landshark67]

Wow... Tough call. Let three armed felons bind you and pray for the best, or step the aggression level up to throw them off guard... I would probably have to go with draw and take the first one out, ready for a quick follow up on the second guy. Most criminals are gambling that they will be met with little or no resistance, and rely on fear and shock as their primary tools for compliance. That being said, when met with a level of aggression higher than their own, most will scatter - as they haven't practiced for that scenario ( no desire to die for the little bit of money / things that they will acquire through their criminal enterprise ).... As for why the jump straight to guns - you carry your weapon to defend yourself and others from those that would do you harm. When you surrender, and allow yourself to be bound, you are now worthless in any attempt to resist as you are fighting from behind the curve. Your initial decision to take action would be your best choice, as if you are bound, you cannot have good access to your weapon - and there is nothing stopping them from searching you; taking your weapon and using it against an innocent or yourself. You take the time to carry, you know that the choice must be made, and they made the choice easy for you when they came in waving guns around ( imminent threat to you and innocent third parties ). If you decide to surrender, and things go south; do you really want your last thought to be the regret that you SHOULD have at least TRIED to stop them? IMHO, I would choose action over inaction.

I have to agree! Why carry if you choose to became a victim.

 

[mdemetz]

Caught;
2 men arrested in connection with December robbery of MC Sports in Goshen - Elkhart Truth

 

[churchmouse]

Caught;
2 men arrested in connection with December robbery of MC Sports in Goshen - Elkhart Truth

Bingo......now, keep them.