Asian groups file federal complaint against Harvard over admission practices

[Leo]

That old joke is just a joke. The doctor who finished last in his class isn't nearly as likely to get the best gig straight out of school as the doctor who finished first. The best grades from the best colleges do matter for entry level workers who want the best jobs available.

The best from med school may get the best positions in the best areas. I am sure there are a few exceptions, but the interurban hospitals in two cities where I worked had some pretty marginal staff. Especially during the collapse of the medical industry under obamacare, the standard quality of care for the masses will look a lot more like Parkland than like Baylor.

 

[Interpon]

they were in the paper..

 

[Interpon]

How do you know the scores of the "minority" that was admitted? I've NEVER seen "iffy" scores reported. The only time I have ever seen scores reported is when they come just shy of perfect. I'm thinking there's a fair bit of hyperbole on your part.

I apologize, I meant to reply to this post.. The grades of ACT and the SAT were in the paper.. it was mailed to me from my dad who was very proud and to show my son how big a deal it was.. I did not show my son the article.

 

[HoughMade]

About exactly 20 years ago, I remember getting a rejection letter from a very prestigious law school. I went on a rant about being white, male and affirmative action being at work (I won't go into detail, but this was more than just blind speculation).

My wife had this look on her face while I was going through this rant. One I didn't think was very "supportive". She told me that she had never heard me talk like a loser and a victim before. She said she didn't like it and found my self-pity very unpleasant.

She was right. I went to another law school, and never looked back.

* * *

Should institutions discriminate like this? Personally, I don't believe so, but it's their institution and they can turn it into whatever they want to.

Playing victim is very unbecoming.

 

[sb0]

Should institutions discriminate like this? Personally, I don't believe so, but it's their institution and they can turn it into whatever they want to.

That would be all well and good if it wasn't completely one sided. Turn the tables and this would be the holocaust and jim crow all rolled into one all over again.

 

[Interpon]

About exactly 20 years ago, I remember getting a rejection letter from a very prestigious law school. I went on a rant about being white, male and affirmative action being at work (I won't go into detail, but this was more than just blind speculation).

My wife had this look on her face while I was going through this rant. One I didn't think was very "supportive". She told me that she had never heard me talk like a loser and a victim before. She said she didn't like it and found my self-pity very unpleasant.

She was right. I went to another law school, and never looked back.

* * *

Should institutions discriminate like this? Personally, I don't believe so, but it's their institution and they can turn it into whatever they want to.

Playing victim is very unbecoming.

I am not playing victim, it is just a fact.. never said not moving on..do not really have a choice.. it is just not right. and as far as public vs private? give me a break.. if it was not for tax grants and programs they would not exist. here is 31 BILLION reasons why this is out of hand.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02...riffin-to-donate-150-million-to-harvard/?_r=0

Much of Harvard’s research funding, more than 75 percent, still comes from the federal government.

 

[HoughMade]

I am not playing victim, it is just a fact.. never said not moving on..do not really have a choice.. it is just not right. and as far as public vs private? give me a break.. if it was not for tax grants and programs they would not exist. here is 31 BILLION reasons why this is out of hand.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02...riffin-to-donate-150-million-to-harvard/?_r=0

Much of Harvard’s research funding, more than 75 percent, still comes from the federal government.

The fact that after 40+ pages of posts, and me not quoting yours, you assume I am taking aim at you when I related this personal anecdote (I wasn't)...

...says a little​ something about the self-focus.

But, having now looked back though the posts, I'll just say this- the right school may open some doors, but the right person will always have opportunities. I'm sure your son will be quite successful if he continues working hard.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Thats what the essay is for "why do you want to attend _____"

As far as who is best. It's a school, not a social engineering device.
Who will come up with the tuition easier and be a devoted alumni after graduation

You also bring up another excellent point. I think you could have a solid debate on the social engineering aspects. For whatever reasons, certain demographic are prone to legal problems. Those within those groups, much less so the higher their educational attainment. If one looks to at colleges as being the institutions that creates, for the most part, leaders... leaders who potentially could offer a reversal in unfortunate trends within their group, but why shouldn't a college offer admissions to a diverse set of students?

 

[Kutnupe14]

That old joke is just a joke. The doctor who finished last in his class isn't nearly as likely to get the best gig straight out of school as the doctor who finished first. The best grades from the best colleges do matter for entry level workers who want the best jobs available.

Recruiters seek out smart graduates because they're easier to place and companies will pay higher fees for finding them. It may depend more on the field you're in, but I know of companies seek out recent top grads to fill new positions. It's because they can get top talent cheaper than what experienced talent costs. They pay top entry level salaries, but it's still entry level salaries.

But the point about the dilution affect affirmative action has on graduates of these top universities is spot on. A top university in a given field can charge more in tuition because of their reputation for producing the best graduates. When they allow people who fall under the bar to attend, for any reason, it affects what they can produce, and their overall reputation is diminished. But if they have a policy that affects just one demographic, like affirmative action, it puts a virtual asterisk on all graduates of that demographic, not just the ones who were admitted because of affirmative action. The black student who earned a spot outright, and works his ass off to earn his way to the top of the graduating class, still has that virtual asterisk.

Affirmative action is just another social program that perpetuates the problem rather than solves it.

I honestly don't buy this. Maybe at IU, UF, UCLA, UT and the like.... but at Ivy League schools, you aren't offered a position unless... regardless of race, ethnicity, etc, you are extremely smart, can do the work, and have the resume deserving to be there.

 

[jamil]

I honestly don't buy this. Maybe at IU, UF, UCLA, UT and the like.... but at Ivy League schools, you aren't offered a position unless... regardless of race, ethnicity, etc, you are extremely smart, can do the work, and have the resume deserving to be there.

Oh, I dunno. Ted Cruz graduated from an Ivy League school and people say he's an idiot.

What you're saying is that it doesn't matter what qualifies a student to attend, or in what tier one graduates, a Harvard degree is a Harvard degree. I kinda agree with that. But an Asian who gets into Harvard is probably truly special.

According to the article posted earlier Harvard sets the bar 140 SAT points higher for Asians than whites; 270 points higher than for Hispanics; 450 points higher than for blacks. I don't know what the lowest score that could qualify a student at Harvard. Certainly not a 1500 unless the family is rich and influential.

Presumably the min SAT would need to be low enough to make those stats possible, so the minimum would be at most 1950. And that's assuming that Asians would all have perfect scores. I'm sure they don't, so the min is probably much lower than 1950. A score of 1900, which is pretty damn good is in the 88th percentile, so 12% of graduates score that or above. And a 1900 will get you into a lot of top universities. But probably not Harvard if you're Asian.

 

[ruger1800]

Obama lied about being born in Kenya to get into college, says Arizona's top election official | MSNBC

 

[Kutnupe14]

Obama lied about being born in Kenya to get into college, says Arizona's top election official | MSNBC

Yeah, that's relevant

 

[bingley]

Obama lied about being born in Kenya to get into college, says Arizona's top election official | MSNBC

How does that even work? Foreign students are admitted for their money. There isn't some sort of affirmative action program for non-Americans. Affirmative action applies only to Americans. Someone like Obama would reduce his chances of getting into college if he were to present himself as a foreigner, unless he had a lot of money.

I think the Harvard case will be really interesting if true. Liberals will hate it because it will show affirmative action discriminates against minorities. Conservatives will hate it because it will show white people are an affirmative action case compared to Asians.

 

[Kutnupe14]

How does that even work? Foreign students are admitted for their money. There isn't some sort of affirmative action program for non-Americans. Affirmative action applies only to Americans. Someone like Obama would reduce his chances of getting into college if he were to present himself as a foreigner, unless he had a lot of money.

I think the Harvard case will be really interesting if true. Liberals will hate it because it will show affirmative action discriminates against minorities. Conservatives will hate it because it will show white people are an affirmative action case compared to Asians.

Finally someone gets it. This issue is at fever pitch in California.

 

[cobber]

So colleges admit based on social engineering if you're a citizen, economics if you're not, and teach watered-down PC crap. Boggles my mind why foreign students want to come to American universities, but then again, they're not coming to major in post-modern LGBT protest poetry studies.

Guess one lesson we can take from this is it's good to be an "official, federally-recognized" minority.



My where we've come as a nation, and where we're headed at this rate.

 

[bingley]

Guess one lesson we can take from this is it's good to be an "official, federally-recognized" minority.

Asians are a minority. It does them no good. To quote myself:

I think the Harvard case will be really interesting if true. Liberals will hate it because it will show affirmative action discriminates against minorities. Conservatives will hate it because it will show white people are an affirmative action case compared to Asians.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So colleges admit based on social engineering if you're a citizen, economics if you're not, and teach watered-down PC crap. Boggles my mind why foreign students want to come to American universities, but then again, they're not coming to major in post-modern LGBT protest poetry studies.

Guess one lesson we can take from this is it's good to be an "official, federally-recognized" minority.



My where we've come as a nation, and where we're headed at this rate.

Minorities?

New UC admissions policy angers Asians - US news - Life - Race & ethnicity | NBC News

It ain't 2040 yet.

 

[cobber]

Asians are a minority. It does them no good. To quote myself:

Federally-recognized they ain't.

In fact, I'm unaware of Asian-Americans sui generis hopping on the government goody gravy train.

They want to be rewarded for their own work, and not the color of their skin. I guess some other members here have an issue with that...

How stupid of them to assume that hard work and merit should be rewarded.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Federally-recognized they ain't.

In fact, I'm unaware of Asian-Americans sui generis hopping on the government goody gravy train.

They want to be rewarded for their own work, and not the color of their skin. I guess some other members here have an issue with that...

How stupid of them to assume that hard work and merit should be rewarded.

I think one could say how stupid of them trying to force a private entity to do their bidding. If Harvard wants all white students they should admit all white students. If UMASS wanted to do the same thing, then they would be wrong.

 

[cobber]

Yeah. Like Title IX. Imagine.

I'm also wondering about the scenario where Harvard admits all white students. How long until the feds crack down on THAT? Methinks even you would have a wee problem with that.


So if Harvard isn't presently doing AA with some minorities because of federal consequences, why are they doing it at all? Diversity? Because the more mediocre students the better?