Asking to See Papers

[GSPBirdDog]

My buddy and I were heading down to his property in Kentucky to shoot full auto, SBR's, and suppressors. He got pulled over for speeding by sheriff's deputy. He told him everything we had and the deputy could have cared less.
IMO, most law enforcement don't know much about ATF regulations.

Comments on the "5320 isn't for suppressors" discussion has me wondering.

I'm curious - has anyone ever been asked to see papers from an LE agency? I see how it could happen at a range, especially with an MG, but has an officer / ranger / sheriff / ATF ever asked to see your papers?

Not debating the "they have no right" argument so let's not go there. I'm only interested in personal experiences. If so, how did it go?

 

[Creedmoor]

Sometimes, gun owners are our own worst enemy.

Here we are, on a gun forum, having a fellow gun owner arguing for a super strict, over reaching, interpretation of an unconstitutional law.

Its a pretty simple fact, and Its only been since 1934... Quite a few members here should read it.

 

[freekforge]

Its a pretty simple fact, and Its only been since 1934... Quite a few members here should read it.

Youre right you should read it. Still waiting on you to find braces in the gca, nfa or indiana code

 

[Creedmoor]

Youre right you should read it. Still waiting on you to find braces in the gca, nfa or indiana code

Ive shown my work more than a few times in this thread thank you.

 

[DadSmith]

I'm not sure where he checked them. He punched the serial numbers on guns and cans into his computer. Im not sure if he ask to see stamps, or i volunteered them. They were in the front pounch of the case, so showing them seemed like it would make everyones day easier.

I believe he thought he had caught a big fish with the suppressors.

Did you offer him a LEO discount on his next purchase at AA

 

[freekforge]

Ive shown my work more than a few times in this thread thank you.

You showed the definition of a brace which the Shockwave blade falls into. Even the atf agreed. It is designed to use tension or straps to stabilize an ar15 pistol for one handed firing. It was not designed or intended to be shouldered. Where in gca, nfa or ic does it mention braces im waiting.

Show. Your. Work.

 

[Creedmoor]

You showed the definition of a brace which the Shockwave blade falls into. Even the atf agreed. It is designed to use tension or straps to stabilize an ar15 pistol for one handed firing. It was not designed or intended to be shouldered. Where in gca, nfa or ic does it mention braces im waiting.

Show. Your. Work.

First it doesn't have to mention braces, it doesn't.
Simple picture, we have known what they are for a long long time.

Short-barreled rifle (SBR) is a legal designation in the United States, referring to a shoulder-fired, rifled firearm, made from a rifle, with a barrel length of less than 16 in (41 cm) or overall length of less than 26 in (66 cm), or a handgun fitted with a BUTTSTOCK and a barrel of less than 16 inches length.

Last Time, It started as a brace, a simple tube....... it morphed into a buttstock.
The only reason it kept changing was to make it more comfortable to shoulder and more appealing to skirt the SBR stamp.
The original was, a simple tube, then straps were added, ATF let it go. its a pistol.
Just like what Palmetto still sells, a pistol receiver with a simple tube.

If the world would have let that stand, it would still be around. Swear to god, State Law.
Then the supposed braces got foam pads on the end of the tube, ATF let it go.
Then it morphed into a non movable with straps or without straps and if it had straps they mounted out of the way in the buttstock with a foam/plastic buttstock, Again ATF let it go.
But then we are well into SBR land.

Stupid people keep writing letters to ATF on "Is this OK? What about this? What about this?
Hey ATF, can I shoulder this pistol with a buttstock arm brace on it??? People couldn't leave it well enough alone...
You all played a played a silly game over a 200 dollar stamp.

Then it goes full stupid with a adjustable buttstock and ar owners and manufactures called them braces. You all did this to yourselves. And "BOOM" shut down.
Blame no one but the person the bought or built a ar pistol with a rifle buttstock on it.

People keep being stupid, trying to skirt Federal Laws, it always comes to an end.

In final, I will refer you to Post #22, Federal Laws Trumps an Opinion Letter.

 

[Creedmoor]

Where exactly did he check the numbers? Just local stolen gun reports? Just curious. Did he ask to see tax stamps on the suppressors?

They have a number in WV that they can call after hours also.

 

[WebSnyper]

They have a number in WV that they can call after hours also.

Do you know what they (the after hours number) actually check against ? Just curious, as there really isn't some universal database of "stolen" firearms that I'm aware of.

 

[freekforge]

First it doesn't have to mention braces, it doesn't.
Simple picture, we have known what they are for a long long time.
View attachment 299123
Short-barreled rifle (SBR) is a legal designation in the United States, referring to a shoulder-fired, rifled firearm, made from a rifle, with a barrel length of less than 16 in (41 cm) or overall length of less than 26 in (66 cm), or a handgun fitted with a BUTTSTOCK and a barrel of less than 16 inches length.

Last Time, It started as a brace, a simple tube....... it morphed into a buttstock.
The only reason it kept changing was to make it more comfortable to shoulder and more appealing to skirt the SBR stamp.
The original was, a simple tube, then straps were added, ATF let it go. its a pistol.
Just like what Palmetto still sells, a pistol receiver with a simple tube.

If the world would have let that stand, it would still be around. Swear to god, State Law.
Then the supposed braces got foam pads on the end of the tube, ATF let it go.
Then it morphed into a non movable with straps or without straps and if it had straps they mounted out of the way in the buttstock with a foam/plastic buttstock, Again ATF let it go.
But then we are well into SBR land.

Stupid people keep writing letters to ATF on "Is this OK? What about this? What about this?
Hey ATF, can I shoulder this pistol with a buttstock arm brace on it??? People couldn't leave it well enough alone...
You all played a played a silly game over a 200 dollar stamp.

Then it goes full stupid with a adjustable buttstock and ar owners and manufactures called them braces. You all did this to yourselves. And "BOOM" shut down.
Blame no one but the person the bought or built a ar pistol with a rifle buttstock on it.

People keep being stupid, trying to skirt Federal Laws, it always comes to an end.

In final, I will refer you to Post #22, Federal Laws Trumps an Opinion Letter.

Again the Shockwave blade was never designed nor intended to be fired from the shoulder. I suggest you look into the function of an ar15 the tube is not and never has been a brace. I can shoulder a stock glock if I wanted to but it was never designed or intended to be fire from the shoulder so it is not a sbr. The is no federal law on the books that trumps that letter.

At this point I'm not even sure if you know what a basic ar15 is since you have no understanding of the essential parts of one.

 

[Creedmoor]

Do you know what they (the after hours number) actually check against ? Just curious, as there really isn't some universal database of "stolen" firearms that I'm aware of.

I would assume against the State and Federal Stolen Databases.

Stolen, recovered, lost, or felony-involved weapons can be reported by law enforcement to the National Crime Information Center (NCIC), a criminal records database managed by the Criminal Justice Information Services. NCIC makes information available to law enforcement nationwide to trace firearms.

 

[Creedmoor]

Again the Shockwave blade was never designed nor intended to be fired from the shoulder. I suggest you look into the function of an ar15 the tube is not and never has been a brace. I can shoulder a stock glock if I wanted to but it was never designed or intended to be fire from the shoulder so it is not a sbr. The is no federal law on the books that trumps that letter.

At this point I'm not even sure if you know what a basic ar15 is since you have no understanding of the essential parts of one.

Dude, you've gotta be ****ing kidding me. Listen to you're old Asst Chief, he will keep you from doing Federal Time.

Sorry Andy...

 

[freekforge]

Dude, you've gotta be ****ing kidding me. Listen to you're old Asst Chief, he will keep you from doing Federal Time.

Sorry Andy...

He's looking at federal time soooo....

What part of what I said would put me in prison? Your opinion?

 

[printcraft]

First it doesn't have to mention braces, it doesn't. Simple picture, we have known what they are for a long long time.

Anyone arguing FOR this type of .gov stupidity really makes me wonder.

NOTE... THIS IS HOW YOU SOUND... vvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

[Creedmoor]

What part of what I said would put me in prison? Your opinion?

Your post # 22 in this thread.

Kinda the same thing i guess. When I was a couple months on the pd our assistant chief asked for sbr paperwork for a 10.5 AR with Shockwave blade. Told him I didn't have tax forms but had the opinion letter saying it was OK. He refused to look at the letter and told me to remove it or go to jail. I always wanted to be a cop so I did as I was told then sent him and email with the opinion letter attached. That should have been a red flag but I ignored it because I'm an idiot.

An Opinion Letter, yea... Funnest thing I've ever heard.
Good Day.

 

[Creedmoor]

Sometimes, gun owners are our own worst enemy.

Here we are, on a gun forum, having a fellow gun owner arguing for a super strict, over reaching, interpretation of an unconstitutional law.

That **** is old...
LOL, I moved over strict guns laws my friend. I lived in a Liberal State for better than 40 years.
You ever live in a State with over 80 firearms banned from transfer???
And thats just for starters...
The 1934 GCA ain't nothing new in America. A moron can understand how simple it is written.
Don't like the GCA, then run for office and work on changing it.

The 1934 GCA is Federal Law, no if ands or butts. Not once have I posted i'm pro or against it.

 

[freekforge]

So it was legal and common to have an ar15 with a brace in 2017 what law would be applied to put me as an individual in prison?

Or are you talking now that they are banned? Is the rule going to be applied ex post facto? Am I going to be thrown in prison for something I had 6 years ago when it was legal and common? Am I going to be imprisoned for being in possession of something that I sold 5 years ago before the unconstitutional rule (that you're obviously in favor of) went into effect?

Do you not have any understanding of law?

 

[42769vette]

Did you offer him a LEO discount on his next purchase at AA

I did show him the link on the site to sign up for it.

 

[gds]

In the 30 years that I've owned machine guns and suppressors I've been checked twice . once by the county police and once by the state police . Both times as a result of someone calling the police and reporting " machine gun fire " . I live in a rural area or it may have happened more often . The first time that I shot my machine gun a county officer drove up my driveway while I was shooting . I put the rifle on the ground and walked over to the cruiser and ask him " what's up " . He said that someone had reported machine gun fire in the area and he had to check it out . I told him where the machine gun was and that I had to go into the house to get my paper work . I showed him the paper work and we walked over to where the gun was laying. He didn't even know what he was looking at . I had to explain it to him . Here's my picture , here is the tax stamp and here's the serial number . That matches the serial number on the gun . He said great , I'll put it on file that you own a legal machine gun and the next time someone calls it in they will be told that the machine gun is legal and there is nothing that they can do about it . about ten years later I moved to another rural area (about ten miles away ) and the same thing happened . This time a State Trooper drove up my driveway and ask me If I was shooting a machine gun . I said yes ,he asked me if I would show him my paper work and the gun . I said no problem. He looked at the paperwork and matched the serial number of the gun to the paper work and then asked me if I would mind if he called it in . I said not at all . after he " called it in " he handed me my paper work back and thanked me for my cooperation and left . No more visits for the last twenty years from the police . I haven't moved anymore either .

 

[edwea]

Thought I'd stop back in this thread again since I was at a public range recently with some suppressors and wasn't sure what to expect. Honestly, in the 30 something years I've been shooting it was only the second or third time I've been to a public range. I had my stamps packed neatly in my bag just in case it came up, but no one asked. I did get some interested people hovering behind the bench looking, but no one wanted to see papers. The rso walked over shortly after I set up and I thought he was going to say something but he didn't.