ATF to close NFA Trust "Loophole"

[MilitaryArms]

We've talked about it for a while now and there's been quite a bit of speculation...

Now it's about to happen. The ATF has submitted a proposed regulation change to the Obama White House to change the way NFA trusts work. Once this regulation change takes effect, you will now have to submit photos and fingerprints for future NFA purchases even with a Trust.

Is anyone else sick of this !@#$?

I'm SO glad I setup a trust this year... that was a waste of $500.

Obama Administration attacks NFA Trusts | The Bang Switch

 

[DaKruiser]

Is anyone else sick of this !@#$?

I'm SO glad I setup a trust this year... that was a waste of $500.

Yes, I quite sick of this

I'm still glad I have a trust, the main reason for me was being able to let my wife have access to my NFA items when I'm not with her. I'm betting they will add the prints and photos to everyone on the trust soon enough! BS!

We need to start pushing back, the NFA is an infringement!

 

[gunworks321]

So, does this also then include the beneficiary's in the trust, who are my grandchildren, one of which was born just two weeks ago. Will they be required to be finger printed and photographed, even though they will not be eligible to handle NFA items until age 21? What a crock of!

 

[MilitaryArms]

I've since talked to David Goldman (NFA Trust Lawyer) and he's of the opinion this is an unsubstantiated report by The Hill blog. The link they provide in the original The Hill article is to the 2012 proposed regulation change. The Hill blog claims to have a source inside the ATF that told them this proposal was being resubmitted.

Given the fact the ATF recently rolled out digital form submissions for dealers and Trusts, it seems suspect they would turn right around and make regulation changes that would in essence remove the ability to use the new digital filing system for Trusts. Why set it up only to disable it a 90 days later?

 

[Rob377]

I've since talked to David Goldman (NFA Trust Lawyer) and he's of the opinion this is an unsubstantiated report by The Hill blog. The link they provide in the original The Hill article is to the 2012 proposed regulation change. The Hill blog claims to have a source inside the ATF that told them this proposal was being resubmitted.

Given the fact the ATF recently rolled out digital form submissions for dealers and Trusts, it seems suspect they would turn right around and make regulation changes that would in essence remove the ability to use the new digital filing system for Trusts. Why set it up only to disable it a 90 days later?

You should know as well as anyone that this is .gov we're talking about. There is actually a statutory requirment that nothing they do can make sense. Setting up a system only to disable it is just the kind of silliness we should expect from them.

 

[ljk]

IF that is true, will these whom have already submitted the forms awaiting for approval be grandfathered in?

 

[canterbc]

The main reason I am looking at getting a trust isn't to bypass the passport photo and fingerprints. My photo and fingerprints were taken for my CWL down here in FL. I am interested in a trust to bypass the CLEO signature. My Sheriff apparently has a "no sign" policy for NFA items and the trust gets me around this. Hopefully that portion isn't going away any time soon.

 

[MTC]

Is anyone else sick of this !@#$?

Sick of what ****? The NFA? Got over that some time after I first found out about it, around twenty years ago at my LGS.
Yes, staring at a rack of M16s, cash in hand, intending to claim my birthright, quietly while being told in detail why I couldn't simply pick one out, pay for it and leave right then. That's when I realized I didn't have a right to keep and bear arms in my own country.

Oh, you mean the trust thing? Well, that's nice for some folks if it's only an unsubstantiated rumor. Wouldn't break my heart if were true, though, as I'm "sick of" some threads being partially derailed by the flippant and dismissive "just get a trust" remark, which detracts from the [un]constitutionality of the NFA in the first place and serves to weaken any will to get rid of it.
Of course, that's easier to say since I've never had any difficulty setting up an appointment with the Sheriff (and the one before him, and the one before him) to chat and sign Form 4s. At least, not the last 15 [or was it 16?] times, (lost count). Disagree with the reason for being there, but it's not his fault. He didn't make those laws.

So, even if it did come to pass that trusts were no longer recognized by the agency granting the privilege to possess that arm, it not only wouldn't bother me, it might in a roundabout way provide the impetus required to repeal the NFA or, since so many (including gun owners) have been conditioned and brainwashed into accepting - even demanding - licensing (and the registration that goes with it) as a prerequisite for the keeping and/or bearing of arms (you know, to make sure you and I are "vetted" and to "keep guns out of <insert undesirables> hands"), at least to strike 18 USC §922(o).

 

[VUPDblue]

So, does this also then include the beneficiary's in the trust, who are my grandchildren, one of which was born just two weeks ago. Will they be required to be finger printed and photographed, even though they will not be eligible to handle NFA items until age 21? What a crock of!

Where did you come up with the bolded part? It is not accurate. In fact, I have been showing my 6 year old the basics of safe gunhandling and when firing of live rounds happens, it is on a suppressed rifle.

 

[Trooper]

It is all over the news today. First saw on the Blaze then within a few minutes WIBC was reporting about it.

There are several reasons to have NFA trust or corporation.
1. It allows for multiple owners instead of restricting that only the guy on the paperwork has to in possession at all times.
2. It allows for clubs so that the cost can be spread out among many individuals.
3. It makes it easier to pass weapons on to family members.
4. It shields the owners from lawsuits.
5. It can be set up as a tax shelter.

I have no problem with requiring background checks for all members. I do not want to have someone I can not trust handling weapons that cost me a small fortune. Or could get me sued by their stupid actions.

 

[Bert]

The second order will prevent the re-importation into the United States of military-grade firearms that have been provided to foreign allies.

does this mean M-1A's and such ?

 

[gunbunnies]

Bert it means he killed the CMP's ability to provide any of our firearms we paid to manufacturer and were able to use to triumph over our enemies in past wars...

This whole Trust thing may require me to move as my local CLEO won't sign off on tax stamp items either... Watching how this will play out as they makeup laws at the Executive Branch level and within the BATFE agency.... Neither of which are legislative branches if I remember my .gov classes correctly......

 

[jbombelli]

It is all over the news today. First saw on the Blaze then within a few minutes WIBC was reporting about it.

There are several reasons to have NFA trust or corporation.
1. It allows for multiple owners instead of restricting that only the guy on the paperwork has to in possession at all times.
2. It allows for clubs so that the cost can be spread out among many individuals.
3. It makes it easier to pass weapons on to family members.
4. It shields the owners from lawsuits.
5. It can be set up as a tax shelter.

I have no problem with requiring background checks for all members. I do not want to have someone I can not trust handling weapons that cost me a small fortune. Or could get me sued by their stupid actions.

Why would you add someone to your trust that you don't know and trust?

 

[338sniper]

The most important thing about trust are avoiding the CLEO signature. There are to many officers that refuse to sign the paperwork even if it is legal to own.
I don't mind (however it is ridiculous) having to go through a background check in order to purchase/own NFA items. However, once you've been through the paperwork you would think the next time or next several times would be much easier and faster, yet it's not.

 

[gravitas73]

I live in Indianapolis. Anyone know if the local CLEO's are NFA friendly?

 

[bigcraig]

I live in Indianapolis. Anyone know if the local CLEO's are NFA friendly?

Getting a CLEO signoff in Indy is a non-issue.

 

[dudley0]

The most important thing about trust are avoiding the CLEO signature. There are to many officers that refuse to sign the paperwork even if it is legal to own.
I don't mind (however it is ridiculous) having to go through a background check in order to purchase/own NFA items. However, once you've been through the paperwork you would think the next time or next several times would be much easier and faster, yet it's not.

To me the most important thing about a trust, or LLC set-up is that more than one person can be in possession of the NFA item.

I put my first couple items into my LLC. I just created a trust for the last item and am waiting on the permission slip to get back. I did this so that I didn't have the items mixed with the ongoing business. Just because I didn't want to put people into the LLC for issues that have nothing to do with the NFA items.

Last I heard, they were talking about stopping the CLEO sign offs. I don't think it is a fair trade if they want each person in the trust to have to go through all the extra paperwork each time an item is bought.

Maybe I am not reading enough into it about the Trust loophole issue... The trust still has to have a physical address. Anyone that lives there will be subject to scrutiny if they decide to let Joe Felon have access to the NFA items and he gets caught.

Right?

I still think that the people that delve into criminal activity as a profession will not be doing any registering or tax stamp purchasing anyhow.

 

[MikeDVB]

You should know as well as anyone that this is .gov we're talking about. There is actually a statutory requirment that nothing they do can make sense. Setting up a system only to disable it is just the kind of silliness we should expect from them.

And the entire thing should cost 3,000% more than expected.

 

[Trigger Time]

So is there any legit news on this? Are we now going to have to get fingerprinted and submit photos to add nfa items to our firearms trust? Thanks for any info.

 

[ryknoll3]

My question is, will you have to submit a set of prints and pics for EVERY person EVERY time, like you do with a individual?