Atterbury June 15-16: Free Ammo & Sample Rifles Sponsored by Wolf, IWI, Mach 1

[redbaron]

You sound like you know me too well!!! Though I hear I'm not the only one who has done this on occassion.

I might have heard of someone or two doing that.

 

[yellowhousejake]

You sound like you know me too well!!! Though I hear I'm not the only one who has done this on occassion.

I would say turning the sight/scope adjustments the wrong way is running close with not writing down the data as the most common "ruin my weekend" mistake students make at Atterbury.

YHJ

 

[The Bubba Effect]

You sound like you know me too well!!! Though I hear I'm not the only one who has done this on occassion.

I do it nearly every time. Last time I shot an AQT at Atterbury I did it as a matter of fact, lol.

That's why I write ALL of my sight adjustments down (usually on my hands/arms). It is not uncommon for me to come home from the range with 2mup 4cup, [STRIKE]1mL 2CL[/STRIKE], 2mL 4CL written all over me like some tattooed whaler. That way it's easy to unravel the mistake that I will inevitably make.

 

[btownie]

I iz gunna be dere wit muh riffle and muh self. Mebbe sum warter. Jus 'n like las' yeer.

Yup.

Oh and I would put some rounds through the rifle you intend to bring and then check to make sure everything is still in place and functional.
I had a newish Remington 700 and it failed during a 4 square at the beginning of the day.
Luckily a good soul had a rifle I could finish the weekend with.

 

[Twangbanger]

Ok, after a frustrating couple weekends at the range, I'll open myself up for some public critique & advice (it has been stated to bring a rifle you know, so here's the beginning of the "knowing" process for me). They say half of being good is knowing what you suck at, so, without further ado, here it goes:

No rifle shooter, I had to acquire a weapon in one of the freebie calibers, and get it fitted up. It has a 24" barrel with 1:9 twist, and I was shooting 55 grainers similar to what will be on offer from our corporate sponsors. To add drama, it's a bolt gun, so in my timed living room dry-fire sessions, I'm coming up about a shot short on the 55-second phase, starting from standing and with a reload. The scope in question is an older Bushnell Sportview 4x...it came off another used rifle (clicks per inch is not marked on it, believe it or not...somebody put target turrets on it, so I suspect maybe the info was lost. It also has an AO, which I wasn't aware scopes at this price point ever came with from the factory). I chased it all over the place starting at 25 yds. then got it on at 100, did some back-and-forth work between 100 and 200 to get the feel of it...then had the pictured result shooting in sitting position with sling at 100 yds. (I told you I'm no rifle shooter, right?). I did have the AO set for the correct parallax distance, and made a pretty decent effort to keep the crosshairs centered regardless. (When a bipod is employed, the rifle will shoot about 1.25" 5-shot groups for me at 100 yards, so it's by no means a bad rifle/bullet combination).

Since I rarely shoot longer than backyard vermin distances with a rifle, I usually just set things and leave them. This is my first in-depth attempt at seeing how well a scope tracks back and forth from different elevations. This doesn't seem very good to me? Groups 1 and two should have been in about the same place. Is this due to not having enough time for the mechanical adjustments to settle in?

Based on my holding and triggering ability, I'm not sure I can afford 2-3 inches of offset in returning to zero, at 100 yards, multiplied times 2,3,400 yards. With you guys & gals' experience with this course of fire, do you think you could "hack" with something like this?

Now comes the decision...is it all an "Indian" problem, and I should work with what I got...or go buy a new and nicer scope (looking at a nice Nikon), and show up with a 25 yd. zero for that on Saturday? (I halfway considered leaving it alone and just trying to "hold over," but I know with the emphasis on databooks and the associated analysis, I wouldn't be getting the intended benefit of the instruction if I did that, even if it was successful).

Dazed and confused...and would appreciate your input. Not feeling very rifleman-like at this point. All suggestions welcome.

 

[Twangbanger]

Photo didn't attach...dangit.

 

[Twangbanger]

Let's try again on the pic (ok, no giggling...I really thought it was the Book Suppository building)

):

I started off in the lower center...marched both knobs 3 turns to the side and came back, then shot the second group to the lower left. I then attempted a windage correction, with the result at top before running out of ammo.

Whew! This is hard.

 

[Rayne]

My suggestion to you is to do a box drill on graphed paper. I'll attach a file for you to print in a bit. Start out shooting the bottom left hand square at 25 meters. Shoot three rounds. Then adjust your elevation up 20 MOA. Since you don't know the click value of your scope let's assume it is 1/4 MOA per click. So that would be 80 clicks. Now shoot three more shots, continuing to aim at the bottom left hand square. Now add 20 MOA of right windage to to your scope, again assume 1/4 MOA per click and go 80 clicks to the right. Once again 3 shots aiming at the bottom left hand square. Now take both the windage and elevation adjustments off your scope and shot 3 more shots at the bottom left hand target.

Now make your rifle safe and go examine your target. It should look something like this. I found my zero on the center square first, but actually it's left of center. Then I took my shots and made my scope adjustments while always aiming at the bottom left square through out the drill. My scope is off by 1 to 2 MOA. I told it 20 MOA and it gave me 18/19 in both elevation and windage. But it came back to zero when I took the adjustments off. So in my case it was the Indian and not the equipment that caused me problems later that day.

If your scope does not track true then you would benefit from a different scope. It's not an Indian problem. If your scope is tracking true and you now know the click value of your scope too and the only problem is the size of your groups or the zero of your scope then both those problems can be addressed at the seed.


Clear as mud?

http://printabletargets.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/zero-target.pdf
Here is a link to a five squre target you can download. Not the one I was looking for but I can't find the one over at the Appleseed Web Site. If anyone knows where that post is at could you link to it.

 

[Twangbanger]

I like that. At 25 yds, it gets the Indian out of the picture, and if nothing else, it shows me what my click values are.


And if I don't wind up back at "square one" when done...time to make a hardware change.


Thanks!

 

[Wild Deuce]

@ all

You should be hydrating at this point. I'm not talking about chugging down a swimming pool every half hour but you should certainly be consuming more water than normal this week.

You should be stretching.

You should have a gear list completed by now. You should have completed a cursory assembly of your gear by now and checked it against your list.

Wear contacts? ... have an extra pair as well as glasses. Allergies? ... take/bring your allergy medication. Hat? Rain gear? ... bring it or embrace the joy of being wet and squishy (not as bad as it sounds). Comfy footwear? Bug spray? Sunscreen? Writing instruments and note taking gear (databook)?

Personal recommendation: Have a single card somewhere on your person (where it can be found easily) throughout the weekend that has your name, DOB, emergency contact information, and important medical information (conditions and medications).

The list could be longer and more detailed but ... you get the idea. This is just meant to get you thinking.

 

[SmileDocHill]

I tried to look up the weather forecast for Camp Atterbury, IN and I just get this.

"Seriously, you are going to a military base and want to know what the weather will be ahead of time!? Please either plan for everything and deal with whatever you get, or cancel your 'reservation'. Silly civilian, your Weather.com privileges have been revoked."

Someone else will have to have to look it up. I suggest using "Edinburgh" rather than Camp Atterbury.

 

[Pale Rider]

@ all
Wear contacts? ... have an extra pair as well as glasses. Allergies? ... take/bring your allergy medication. Hat? Rain gear? ... bring it or embrace the joy of being wet and squishy (not as bad as it sounds). Comfy footwear? Bug spray? Sunscreen? Writing instruments and note taking gear (databook)?

I'd say skip the conacts all together and go for the glasses. Contacts are built with your exact prescription at the center of the lens (think bulseye on a target) what happens when you shoot:

Your head tilts and you attempt to focus on the sights, this allows the contact to drift in your eyes and you often end up looking through the top of the lens which isn't your actual prescription. Every Army shooting school (to my knowledge) encourages if not requires participants to shoot in glasses.

 

[Wild Deuce]

I'd say skip the conacts all together and go for the glasses. Contacts are built with your exact prescription at the center of the lens (think bulseye on a target) what happens when you shoot:

Your head tilts and you attempt to focus on the sights, this allows the contact to drift in your eyes and you often end up looking through the top of the lens which isn't your actual prescription. Every Army shooting school (to my knowledge) encourages if not requires participants to shoot in glasses.

Interesting ... my optometrists (past and present) have both told me the exact opposite. They said that you will look through the top inside (near the nose bridge) quadrant of your eyeglass lens (where parallax is greatest). (I know that custom shooting bifocal glasses will put a midrange prescription at the top of the lens or near the nose bridge for rifle shooters.) They said the contacts will always be centered since they conform to the cornea and move with the eye (otherwise you would notice the discomfort if they were to drift off the cornea).

I would like to hear from an expert.

Added: I would suggest using whatever you used to sight in your rifle or whatever is proven to work for you (the shooter).

 

[Hop]

I shoot better with contacts too. Glasses slip and shift & shooting prone with a small lens is difficult if not impossible for me.

So... I hurt my back. Lugging equipment around today for work did not help. I'll still be there for sure. Hopefully I can shoot. Right now, I can barely move.

 

[yellowhousejake]

I shoot best when I trust totally in my NPOA. I used to just keep my eyes closed and ask SPQR if I was hitting anything. He suggested that is not the best course of action for a good score.

YHJ

 

[Pale Rider]

Interesting ... my optometrists (past and present) have both told me the exact opposite. They said that you will look through the top inside (near the nose bridge) quadrant of your eyeglass lens (where parallax is greatest). (I know that custom shooting bifocal glasses will put a midrange prescription at the top of the lens or near the nose bridge for rifle shooters.) They said the contacts will always be centered since they conform to the cornea and move with the eye (otherwise you would notice the discomfort if they were to drift off the cornea).

I would like to hear from an expert.

Added: I would suggest using whatever you used to sight in your rifle or whatever is proven to work for you (the shooter).

Wow, I'll check my info. I'm curious on this too. I don't wear glasses or contacts but have a few teammates who do. Thanks for weighing in, totally rocked my knowledge base with that one.

 

[Wild Deuce]

Wow, I'll check my info. I'm curious on this too. I don't wear glasses or contacts but have a few teammates who do. Thanks for weighing in, totally rocked my knowledge base with that one.

Yep ... I would certainly check with a professional before taking my word for it. It was several years ago since I discussed this subject with my optometrists. Neither of them were shooters but I clearly explained to them what I was doing. I recall one of them reassured me by having me stand in front of a mirror and watch my contacts while putting my head through some extreme rotations. This was forcing my eyes to look out of every corner/edge of my eyelids. The contacts remained centered. I was satisfied.

For this discussion, I would still recommend that you use whatever you used for sighting in (whatever works for you).

 

[windellmc]

Sometimes I can't get my contact to move off center with my finger. They are not supposed to move around on your eye.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

How late can we get into Atterbury? How Early? Does the gate have hours or are they open 24/7?

Also, I think this has been covered, but everyone is bringing their lunch, right? Not much of an opportunity to run out and grab something to eat on base that I know of.

 

[Twangbanger]

What I've been told by people who wear them, is that contacts move with your eye, which is good for shooting sports where you need to "flick" your eyes to acquire the next target. In trapshooting, for example, shooters with heavy prescriptions have told me contacts are the only way to play. When a bird streaks off to the side, it moves through your field of view, and since glasses can only be ground with the correct prescription in the exact optical center of the lens, the bird will jump around and change sizes as it moves across the outer perimeter (before you can catch up to the bird and get it centered in your lens). But, there's a lot of good shooters with Rx glasses out there (Bud Decot made a small fortune off them), so there's obviously more than one way to skin the cat.


That has nothing to do with this type of rifle shooting, though. I'd think the possibility of getting dust behind the contacts would be more of a negative consideration here.