Automotives Companies Fight Against Home Repairs

[Arthur Dent]

Its a flippen car for heaven sake not a rocket ship.
I don't want to melt whats left of my brain trying to understand it, I just want to get from point a to point b.

You ever wonder why your car's electronics don't crash twice a day when you're out and about? There is so much research and development that goes into making your car run reliably to get you from point a to point b. Those electronics must work in extremes of heat, humidity, cold, vibration, dirt, and all sorts of stuff you wouldn't even consider. It's all done just so you can say "Its a flippen car for heaven sake not a rocket ship" because it works with such boring regularity you don't even think about it. You expect it to be there, ready to go on a moment's notice. And it is.

 

[churchmouse]

No way I am going to take my rigs to a
"StealerShip" ......................No way.

 

[rosefarm10]

The big M will throw you in jail for "stealing"/planting saved seed.....why wouldn't the current court structure rule in favor of the large corporations? They own the government. We are all on a very slippery slope.

 

[confused89]

The way I figure it, once the warranty is done you can do what ever you want to your vehicle. I know how much time is put into getting an engine to run correctly with a vehicle. For the last eight years my job has been to find the flaws in the software by driving the vehicle. Operate it, try to break it, fix the issues. The companies that make tuners for the engine and the cars, there are some good ones out there and there are some very bad ones out there. So to me you bought it, you own it.

 

[Bowman78]

You ever wonder why your car's electronics don't crash twice a day when you're out and about? There is so much research and development that goes into making your car run reliably to get you from point a to point b. Those electronics must work in extremes of heat, humidity, cold, vibration, dirt, and all sorts of stuff you wouldn't even consider. It's all done just so you can say "Its a flippen car for heaven sake not a rocket ship" because it works with such boring regularity you don't even think about it. You expect it to be there, ready to go on a moment's notice. And it is.

Amen, this is the problem.. Most folks think this way.. They have forgotten the 60's and 70's and the 80's which are the infancy of cars we have today... The autos now are leaps and bounds better and more efficient than what was ever though possible.. The complexity of modern autos can be almost solely attributed to big gov intervention and regulation.. Like it or not...epa and cafe standards are what has gotten us where we are....

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I thought most were capitalists on here??!!!

It's not capitalism that we aren't down with, so much as the "Legislative Assist" that seems to be an inherent part of American capitalism.

 

[Thegeek]

Pretty easy to kill that argument. Buy a book. Start tearing pages out and making paper airplanes. Ask the judge if that's copyright violation.

 

[steveh_131]

Just more libtard thinking.

This is the logical conclusion of our philosophy when it comes to imaginary property. This is not a liberal issue. Conservatives strongly favor IP legislation. Moreso than liberals, I would say.

Seems like the logical extension of the whole "intellectual property" debate. This is what they've been going towards for years. If it's electronic or digital you don't own it, you're simply licensing it and it can be taken back at the whim of the "creator".

This is absolutely right. Nobody seemed to care when it was seeds and mp3's. Now that it's coming to our vehicles, we're all up in arms?

Conservatives have been pushing the 'you don't own that' mentality for decades.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Isn't the jist of this all about the software / code contained within ECMs and such? Not about nuts and bolts, but about the software that runs the vehicle?

Just like most of the software on most of the computers used to access INGO. Generally speaking, it's all licensed copies. You don't "own" Microsoft Windows; you own a licensed copy.

 

[JettaKnight]

This thread and the linked article doesn't make any sense. ECU software is incredibly complex and it's not like you can swap things out or make 'mods' like you would with Grand Theft Auto on your PC.

Even if you could extract the code (usually it's hardware locked requiring a $100K+ extraction effort), it's just bits that need to be decompiled into a tangled mess of software. It's a herculean effort to reserve engineer the software and make a change.

I really wonder what these aftermarket chips contain. One company will sell me this:

PCD Performance Chip Stage 1 Engine: 3 Cylinder

2017 BMW 7 Series

$69.99

So what does it do? How was it tested? Is BMW really making a 3 cylinder car in the future?

Remember that whole Toyota suck throttle fiasco? The code Toyota created was a hot mess - that was argued in court. I doubt some "tuner" is going to do any better given that they have a fraction of the budget of Toyota and probably start with Toyota's spaghetti code. ECU software is not something to be underestimated. I suspect the days of performance chips to be about over - and not because of laws, but this from practicality. It's way more than just the EFI, a MAP sensor, and temp sensor these days.


Make no mistake this isn't about the shade tree mechanic versus 'big auto'.


As to the copyright, all software is pretty much copyrighted. It's no different than a book. If I write a novel and then you come along and change a few lines here and there and sell this new novel, wouldn't you expect the court to side with me for copyright violation?

 

[Dead Duck]

Last time my Corvair had computer problems I decided to just rebuild it.





While I was at it, I also replaced the entire computer wiring harness.

 

[steveh_131]

As to the copyright, all software is pretty much copyrighted. It's no different than a book. If I write a novel and then you come along and change a few lines here and there and sell this new novel, wouldn't you expect the court to side with me for copyright violation?

You're right, it is really no different.

Continue to observe as everything that we think we 'own' becomes more and more restricted by IP laws.

 

[steveh_131]

Additionally, the open source ECU world is continuing to develop:

rusEfi

It is still in its infancy, but I expect it to grow quickly if auto companies continue down this path.

Being able to easily tweak things in our engine control or body control modules would be awesome.

 

[churchmouse]

Last time my Corvair had computer problems I decided to just rebuild it.





While I was at it, I also replaced the entire computer wiring harness.

How many Ingo folks do you think know about and how to set "Dwell"........???

 

[Leadeye]

How many Ingo folks do you think know about and how to set "Dwell"........???

Still have the old analog meter.

 

[SSGSAD]

How many Ingo folks do you think know about and how to set "Dwell"........???

I do, I do..... and I know what BTDC, and ATDC is !!!!!

 

[Eight]

I am still amazed when I think about how often my life was in the hands of things like tiny springs vs. centrifugal force or metering rods and accelerator pumps. I know they work. I just can't believe they do as long as they do.

 

[blackenedman]

How many Ingo folks do you think know about and how to set "Dwell"........???

Haven't been able to use my dwell/tach meter since I sold my '55 Delray...

 

[SkinNFluff]

I yanked the factory ecu out of mine a few years ago and replaced it with megasquirt. At the same time I pulled the disty and replaced it with coil packs. A simple trip to the dyno with my laptop and I tuned it. The factories can keep their code as far as I am concerned.

 

[shibumiseeker]

How many Ingo folks do you think know about and how to set "Dwell"........???

I know how to, haven't had to do so for over a decade now. I like having a daily driver that doesn't require tinkering every weekend to keep it running well.