Backup Generator Wiring Question...

[tedbower]

I bought a generator panel from lowes a few years ago and hooked it up myself , not that difficult .

 

[Martin Draco]

I won't go into the "how is it your qualified" bs but let's say that I am no gun smith so I don't work on my guns, I take them to a gun smith.

I have spent many years playing with wires and I would state that any person with some common sense can accomplish most simple wiring issues one would find in a home.

Some very important issues have already been discussed and great information provided.

That being said let me make one comment, if your "temporary" power has an issue and burns your house down, more then likely your home owners insurance will not cover any repairs or replacement if there is not proof that a qualified, bonded and insured electrician performed the modifications to your homes power system.

One point that hasn't been made is that most dryer drop wire is only usually rated for the breaker which typically is no more then 30 Amps, that can not handle 7000 watts of generator power and would be the weak link in the system and if you have ever seen an electrical fire in a home it isn't something that I would recommend. If you are using a 6 gauge wire for your temporary cord shouldn't the wire going from the dryer plug to your breaker box also be 6 Gauge? I bet it isn't bigger then 10 gauge... If your lucky it might be 8.. Just saying..

Transfer switches don't cost that much compared to burning your home down. And if you stop and think if your in an emergency where your on backup power it's not a good time to find your system can not handle sustained use without risking fire.

If you want professional results get a professional to do the work. Or at least get one to look over your system, and over the phone, email, etc isn't what I mean, they need to come to your house and look it over.

Damn right!
I am an Electrician and I do a lot of work for the big insurance restoration contractor. I have worked on many homes that the homeowner decided, "that doesn't look to difficult, I can do it myself", and after the fire we get called to rewire the home. Right now we're working on one in the Eagle Creek area that an older gentleman hired a "handyman" to do an Electricians job. The homeowner unfortunately never made it out of the home. I have done quite a few generator hook ups and I can tell you rather than re-invent the wheel spend the money to do it right.

 

[SWAMPMASTER]

This is the one that I have

Gentran Corporation: Generator Transfer switches for home & business

Thanks this was a big help in my mind. i am gettign ready to upgrade electrical this spring to 400 amp service and now I have apic in my mind as how I will finish it

 

[Martin Draco]

I am an Electrician and I do a lot of work for a big insurance restoration contractor. I have worked on many homes that the homeowner decided, "that doesn't look to difficult, I can do it myself", and after the fire we get called to rewire the home. Right now we're working on one in the Eagle Creek area that an older gentleman hired a "handyman" to do an Electricians job. The homeowner unfortunately never made it out of the home. I have done quite a few generator hook ups and I can tell you rather than re-invent the wheel spend the money to do it right. and this is what saving a couple bucks on electrical work looks like:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...26152536948_1326836599_31104365_7895003_n.jpg

 

[CountryBoy19]

I am an Electrician

Important enough to say it twice huh?


I will say what the others have said. The "dead man cord" is very dangerous in the wrong hands. A person could get killed, either you/your family or a lineman. I would recommend using an RV style plug. This is very similar to a "dead man cord" except that the hot male end is "shrouded" and you cannot accidentally electrocute yourself on a hot male plug.

There is a company that makes a small "lockout" type device that goes on your breaker box. You put a breaker in for your generator plug right below your main. It won't allow you to engage the generator breaker until you disengage the main breaker. This ensures that you don't electrocute a lineman. Both of these options are very cheap. If you can't afford a double-pole, double-throw transfer switch then the above 2 options combined will suffice at keeping you safe.

 

[PeaShooter]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!

DO NOT HOOK UP YOUR GENERATOR THIS WAY!!!!

Use the correct transfer switch or do not do it! If you forget to throw your main breaker, you can backfeed the line and potentially kill a lineman. You will be charged with a minimum of Manslaughter (and will probably lose your LTCH as a felon). I am an electrical engineer and have spent a lot of time as an electrician in my journey through college.

This is over and above the possibility of burning down your own house and killing your family if not done correctly. My boss made a lot of money ripping out and fixing homeowner electical work, that was luckely before they burnt their house down.

 

[superdad]

I won't go into the "how is it your qualified" bs but let's say that I am no gun smith so I don't work on my guns, I take them to a gun smith.

I have spent many years playing with wires and I would state that any person with some common sense can accomplish most simple wiring issues one would find in a home.

Some very important issues have already been discussed and great information provided.

That being said let me make one comment, if your "temporary" power has an issue and burns your house down, more then likely your home owners insurance will not cover any repairs or replacement if there is not proof that a qualified, bonded and insured electrician performed the modifications to your homes power system.

One point that hasn't been made is that most dryer drop wire is only usually rated for the breaker which typically is no more then 30 Amps, that can not handle 7000 watts of generator power and would be the weak link in the system and if you have ever seen an electrical fire in a home it isn't something that I would recommend. If you are using a 6 gauge wire for your temporary cord shouldn't the wire going from the dryer plug to your breaker box also be 6 Gauge? I bet it isn't bigger then 10 gauge... If your lucky it might be 8.. Just saying..

Transfer switches don't cost that much compared to burning your home down. And if you stop and think if your in an emergency where your on backup power it's not a good time to find your system can not handle sustained use without risking fire.

If you want professional results get a professional to do the work. Or at least get one to look over your system, and over the phone, email, etc isn't what I mean, they need to come to your house and look it over.

Also, one personal experience which I have seen first hand, growing up in rural america we always had generators, one time (not at band camp) a neighbor back fed his home from his barn which had it's own meter to the power company and he forgot to open it's main feed. When the power company came to fix the issue in the area they saw he had lights on (it was night time in the winter) and thankfully investigated before doing any repairs to the power grid. When they checked and found he was back feeding they went nutz! The power company supervisor showed up with a chain saw and cut the pole down in front of the guys house after disconnecting the wires and told him that rather then the fine and legal bill he would just have to pay $3,500 for them to put a new pole in and hook him back up. Lets just say he ran on his generator for a couple of weeks...

Just a quick search found this, might help.. Basic Residential Electrical Wiring Circuits Rough In and Codes Guide

Good luck..

I work as a troubleshooter for the power company. some people feel that 120/240 is no big deal. it is enough to kill a person if it takes the right path. the even bigger issue here is the fact that a transformer will work either way...high voltage in, low voltage out or low voltage in, high voltage out. so if you were to backfeed into the power companys system, you would be sending about 7200 volts of electricity out of the top of the tranformer, and that my friend can kill somebody in a hurry. please set it up the right way. its in everybodys best interest

 

[Icarry2]

Another issue that requires some skill is to balance the emergency load, most generators big enough to handle the large loads of your home are 220 which have to be kept close to balanced between the legs or you can burn up your generator.

The only reason I don't help people do these sorts of jobs anymore on the side is because of not being able to keep the bonding and insurance required to be a contractor in most properly monitored and coded communities..

I wasn't trying to offend anyone, just make a point about safety..

 

[cosermann]

The GenTran switches are so easy to put in a caveman could do it.

 

[slackerisme]

+1 for hiring skilled help. I installed mine when I built my house and traded my labor helping to hang cans and run wire for the installation of the generator. I have no regrets and will call my electrician back in a heartbeat to re-wire the generator. I refuse to have a line mans death on my hands for a few dollars.

 

[Icarry2]

As I already stated, I don't claim to be any kind of expert, my opinion is just like everyone else's. My points that I have made is to insure reliable back up power and not void any insurance or other building codes which can all cause huge monetary damage as well as loosing your belongings, home, pets, family...

By all means, work within your comfort zone, and as I also stated, if u possess the skills to accomplish the work on your own then u also assume the risks.

Best of luck to anyone DIYing projects, just realize the risks and dangers.

Also if you rent and your work causes damage to a structure you will be responsible.

 

[Sailor]

Your homeowners will cover you. We pay for stupid all the time. As long as you do not intentionally burn the house down you are fine.

That does not make using a dead mans cord a good idea though.

 

[.40caltrucker]

Lineman Killed By Generator Back Feed - Victim Helping Restore Power in Alabama - Electric Energy Online

Well I learned something new, I never figured any linemen have actually been killed by this. Definitely worth taking the time to install it right.

 

[Icarry2]

Thanks Sailor for clearing that up, I guess when I asked my agent it was explained pertaining to my situation, I rent, so I wouldn't have coverage for destroying my landlords house..lol

I learned something, "insurance pays for stupid"..lol I love that expression..

Thanks..

 

[Sailor]

The liability coverage on your renters policy pays for the property damage and bodily injury. You accidentally burn down the house cause you were frying chicken and talking on the phone, you are legally liable, we would pay for the attorneys and settle after a release is signed. Same for bodily injury, you are having friends over but you left garbage on the steps and and light was out. You failed in your duty to the invitee, and would be liable. Again we would pay for the attorneys and settle after release is signed.

Renters insurance is cheap. Good to have.

 

[Jeckle]

Update on my original question. Dead man's plug is officially out of service. I had the transfer switch put in today. Nothing fancy, a manual. The switch and install was under $400.00 Though my quick fix did work the risk was far more than I am willing to accept. So in the end it's done right and it only cost me $40.00 more than doing it right in the first place. Far less than if I'd burned my house down or killed a line worker.

 

[Hammer]

As a person who works for in the power delivery industry, Thank you.

You saved yourself a lot of issues as well. Most linemen when they encounter a generator, they will check to see how it's hooked up. If it's "rigged" they will pull either the meter of the transformer fuse, which totally isolates the "rigged" system from the grid. When they are finished doing repairs and the grid is energized, they might "forget" to connect you back. Causing you to run that generator much longer than necessary.

 

[Icarry2]

Congrats Jeckle on now having a great system.


Also you may want to setup a way to be notified that your power company has restored power, some times you can tell by neighbors, street lights, etc but if it is during the day you won't know unless you have something setup to still recieve it's power only from the power company which isn't easy sometimes.