Bad news for downtown

[Twangbanger]

Yep, a bit of a slippery slope if you ask me. Sure, things aren't too bad now, but I bet there are cities in CA who thought the same thing years back. Now they're in the situation they're in. If we keep allowing this type of thing, it'll get worse, because that's the way it works. Just like there are certain times and places where your first amendment rights don't apply, or apply fully, to me it's the same here. For the sake of a civilized area where you can shop, eat and walk without being accosted or seeing bums with their hands out, those bums are not allowed to beg. Yes, we need to follow up the prohibition with helping the homeless, the mentally unbalanced and others who end up this way. For those who are grifters who do this just so they don't have to do any real work, I have no sympathy.

I agree with you, solutions need to be found.

Here is the problem, though:

...I pray I never have an opportunity for a better understanding of their situation. There, but for the grace of G_d, go I.

This is, for the most part, simply not true in America. People feel they need to give money to these people, because life is all a big crapshoot, and we all "roll out numbers" then stand back and see what we get. And, you know the drill...the people on the sidewalk just rolled bad numbers. So, I need to pay him, because if I had simply rolled different numbers, I would be sitting right there and I am no different than him (*Note: did you notice that it's always a "him?")

Sociology shows us this is simply not true. If you stay in school and out of drugs and trouble with the law, get a job, and get married and stay married, you almost certainly don't end up there, unless you're mentally ill. Now, I know not everybody can do these things. But let's focus on the real root cause: someone is either mentally ill, or they are making a string of bad choices. If we know that bad choices are a primary root cause, does giving someone $20 make them make better choices? Or does it just make _you_ feel better to be the object of gratitude?

We need to get back to proper institutional mental health care in this country. Not giving someone a prescription for antidepressants and sending them out to pee on the sidewalk. We do not want the horrors of a century ago; but most of the worst of those were in facilities designed for people with severe cerebral palsy and other maladies who could not function on any kind of level, something which was more prevalent in the time before birth control. Today we are dealing with more individuals who are higher-functioning, just not able to be totally on their own.

The ACLU has acted vigorously in the courts to make any kind of institutionalization highly problematic and controversial, and simultaneously, the pharmaceutical industry invented a class of drugs (antidepressants) which was seen as a one-size-fits-all substitute for institutional care for all mentally and emotionally disturbed people.

The result has been school shooters, and the streets of California (and soon to be _your_ city) filled with sidewalks teeming with tents and raving lunatics. That is not the place for them.

And if you're giving these people $20, you are sustaining them there. Ask yourself: Am I really solving the problem? Or do I just want the emotional lift of being the object of gratitude today?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I agree with you, solutions need to be found.

Here is the problem, though:



This is, for the most part, simply not true in America. People feel they need to give money to these people, because life is all a big crapshoot, and we all "roll out numbers" then stand back and see what we get. And, you know the drill...the people on the sidewalk just rolled bad numbers. So, I need to pay him, because if I had simply rolled different numbers, I would be sitting right there and I am no different than him (*Note: did you notice that it's always a "him?")

Sociology shows us this is simply not true. If you stay in school and out of drugs and trouble with the law, get a job, and get married and stay married, you almost certainly don't end up there, unless you're mentally ill. Now, I know not everybody can do these things. But let's focus on the real root cause: someone is either mentally ill, or they are making a string of bad choices. If we know that bad choices are a primary root cause, does giving someone $20 make them make better choices? Or does it just make _you_ feel better to be the object of gratitude?

We need to get back to proper institutional mental health care in this country. We do not want the horrors of a century ago; but most of the worst of those were in facilities designed for people with severe cerebral palsy and other maladies who could not function on any kind of level. The ACLU has acted vigorously in the courts to make any kind of institutionalization highly problematic and controversial, and simultaneously, the pharmaceutical industry invented a class of drugs (antidepressants) which was seen as a one-size-fits-all substitute for institutional care for all mentally and emotionally disturbed people.

The result has been school shooters, and the streets of California (and soon to be _your_ city) filled with sidewalks teeming with tents and raving lunatics. That is not the place for them.

And if you're giving these people $20, you are sustaining them there. Ask yourself: Am I really solving the problem? Or do I just want the emotional lift of being the object of gratitude today?

And if they're not mentally ill, but simply gaming people that are giving them money, are they really grateful, or are they thinking, "Sucker!"

 

[NKBJ]

Providing a therapeutic service for the guilt ridden without brick and mortar fronts, pharmaceuticals or confessionals.
And like most of their business competitors probably thinking "Sucker!"

 

[ashby koss]

what about our right to not be harassed?

 

[MCgrease08]

what about our right to not be harassed?

Being asked for spare change does not rise to the level of harassment.

 

[wtburnette]

Being asked for spare change does not rise to the level of harassment.

I would think that would depend on how often you're asked.

 

[bwframe]

Are these pan handlers wearing masks? Washing hands? Social distancing?

 

[Thor]

I have a standard response to the bums that ask for spare change. I tell them, "change only comes from within."

It's pretty funny watching the wheels turn in their head as they try and figure out what that means. Most don't get it EVER.

FIFY

Good reply.

 

[Thor]

Being asked for spare change does not rise to the level of harassment.

Depends on your level of harassment acceptance. If your life is so failed you need to beg from others in this society you are a failed human. And no I don't want to have you coming up to me on the street.

 

[eldirector]

As long as Indy finds it acceptable to panhandle, let bums lie around, to allow "youths" to run amok, and (now) trash and graffiti everywhere, I have no reason to go into the city.

Do these folks have a "right" to camp on public property? The right to accost passers-by for money? Maybe. Won't impact me much, as I simply will take my family someplace we are actually welcome.

 

[NHT3]

I lived in Marion county all my life until 2011 when I moved to Johnson Co. Last time I did any business in Hognose county was patronizing Jenkins to get a blue label. Other than that I'm just passin through.
Been a while since you saw this I'll wager

 

[gregkl]

Are these pan handlers wearing masks? Washing hands? Social distancing?

Not the ones in Seminary Park.

 

[MCgrease08]

I would think that would depend on how often you're asked.

.

IC 35-45-10-2
"Harassment" defined

Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "harassment" means conduct
directed toward a victim that includes but is not limited to repeated
or continuing impermissible contact that would cause a reasonable
person to suffer emotional distress and that actually causes the victim
to suffer emotional distress. Harassment does not include statutorily
or constitutionally protected activity, such as lawful picketing
pursuant to labor disputes or lawful employer-related activities
pursuant to labor disputes.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-3
"Impermissible contact" defined

Sec. 3. As used in this chapter, "impermissible contact" includes
but is not limited to knowingly or intentionally following or pursuing
the victim.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-4
"Victim" defined

Sec. 4. As used in this chapter, "victim" means a person who is the
object of stalking.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-5
Criminal stalking

Sec. 5. (a) A person who stalks another person commits stalking,
a Level 6 felony.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

Been a while since you saw this I'll wager

Keep on truckin'
(R. Crumb?)

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Keep on truckin'
(R. Crumb?)

Mr. Natural blotter acid. Or so I've heard...

 

[Lost Californian]

what about our right to not be harassed?

Don't think I have heard of that right before. Is it a federal right? State? Maybe a local county city thing?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[printcraft]

Friend that lives on the canal says the yutes are out whooping and hollering almost every night through to the 4 a.m. area.
They are talking about not renewing their lease and getting out.
Another friend of theirs lives in a NICE place downtown and has for a decade is leaving, loves the city life but doesn't feel safe any longer.

If the city doesn't want to drive out the successful and their money and the businesses that go along with that well they sure are going about it in the wrong way.
Negative growth for Indy inbound.

 

[KMaC]

A neighbor has her 50? something daughter living with her while awaiting a move to a new home. She sold her house downtown the week after the riots.
She stayed with Mom during the riot week. She was afraid to go home.
Congrats Mayor, you have destroyed in one week the urban rebirth that took 40 years to build.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

Mr. Natural blotter acid. Or so I've heard...

hippie!

 

[gregkl]

Friend that lives on the canal says the yutes are out whooping and hollering almost every night through to the 4 a.m. area.
They are talking about not renewing their lease and getting out.
Another friend of theirs lives in a NICE place downtown and has for a decade is leaving, loves the city life but doesn't feel safe any longer.

If the city doesn't want to drive out the successful and their money and the businesses that go along with that well they sure are going about it in the wrong way.
Negative growth for Indy inbound.

That's too bad. It was a pretty cool area. I once did a triathlon where we swam in the canal. I did good in the race but developed a respiratory ailment after that lasted for a week or so. And my blue swim cap was green when I came out of the water.