Lemme know how that works for you, vegetarian.
I am using the equipment I was born with. My brain. Which tells me I need something that extends my lethal range past the front of my teeth if I intend to remain at the top of the food chain.
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Baiting
- Thread starter chato
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Lemme know how that works for you, vegetarian.
I am using the equipment I was born with. My brain. Which tells me I need something that extends my lethal range past the front of my teeth if I intend to remain at the top of the food chain.
I'm suggesting that the argument that baiting is "unsporting" or an "unfair advantage" is pointless.
Baiting deer is like fishing with dynamite. They both work quite well, and if you were starving, I'd say go for it. But don't ask to be called a sportsman if you do either. For most sportsman, the thrill is in the hunt, not in the kill. They would rather spend a week or two in the woods (or on the lake) than just a half hour over bait or five seconds fishing with dynamite. That's just too easy, and too lazy, in my opinion.
Yet another flawed logic argument. If you are going out every day and throwing dog food or some other feed in a pond at the same spot and then, when the fish get used to that and come swarming at the sound of the food hitting the water, throwing a net on top of them, you have a valid point. However, I don't see too many people doing that. People want to bait deer for one reason, IT IS EFFECTIVE!It takes the work out of figuring out where deer are going to be and puts them where you want them to be.In some instances even WHEN you want them to be there. If it did nothing, as these crop field and such arguments try to propose, no one would want to do it. To argue otherwise is illogical and counterintuitive. If people want to bait fine, whatever floats your boat, but at least be honest with why and quit with the phony arguments.
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It's a ridiculous argument over something totally subjective.
Depending on how you grew up or where you live, you may consider using dogs, a treestand, a ground blind, scent covers, scent attractants, a crossbow, an inline muzzleloader, a scope, laser sight, a rifle, mechanical broadheads, electronic calls, or any combination of those things either "sporting" or "unethical"
It's just a way to judge other people.
I think this is a topic where it's pretty easy to get a little too preachy if you've got a great hunting spot. I'm not trying accuse anyone of that, but if you've got a hunting spot of a couple hundred acres of whatever type of land than you can be a more discriminating hunter in a lot of ways. You can be the guy who says you should only hunt with the wind in your face and slowly spot and stalk your animals, or you can make a valid point that you should hunt this type of terrain or by water or whatever. The reality is that for most guys out there we're darn lucky if we own a small piece of land and we're even luckier to be able to hunt if we don't have land but have some kind of a hook up to go hunting on someone else's. For the guys who don't have a particularly great spot to hunt I don't see a moral issue with them doing something to bring in some wildlife to help them feed their familes. They don't have to be half starving to justify taking an animal. The economy sucks in a lot of places and if putting a couple apples on the ground helps a hard working man feed his family then I'm all for it. Maybe the money they would have spent on food that the deer provided allowed them to get something they needed to for their kids or help someone else out. I don't care either way, but people getting a big brown fleshy bag of food helps. I don't think that just because a person had an apple or a salt block out somewhere that makes him a bad person or a bad hunter, or lazy. Baiting is just that, it's not a guarentee it's just a pile of food somewhere to hopefully give a hunter a chance that he wouldn't have otherwise had.
I'm curious how many of the guys knocking the baited hunts have actually been on one. I've been on a couple and I'll be happy to share.
Back in 2002 I was hunting deer in the Upper Peninsula at a "lodge" and it was a baited hunt. I had a family member with me and at the time neither of us had any experience or really knew anything about hunting at all other than we were interested in trying it out. We found the place because it was dirt cheap and that's what we could afford. The bait pile was some corn and a couple of apples that wouldn't have filled a 5 gallon bucket up a quarter of the way. Between the two of us in seperate stands a mile apart for 3 or 4 days, we only saw one doe and I let her walk. Their weren't hundreds of world class bucks lined up at the dinner bell with perfectly formed antlers. We saw one lousy doe and I let her go on by.
Couple years later I went back to that same place myself. On opening day I saw one doe in the morning that walked by a very similar bate pile and didn't even care that it was there. I let her walk. Later that night just as I was getting ready to get down from the tree another doe and a barely 4pt buck came along the path of the woods and they stopped and had a couple nibbles and snacks. I knew the guy was on a hot date that was looking good for him and from one dude to another I couldn't bring myself to ruin that for him even though it would have meant a first deer & buck for me. That was it for opening day and I spent the rest of the week looking at the bait pile and not seeing another deer the whole time. There were no tracks or any kind of sign that the bait was being hit throughout the night either. Hard to imagine for some guys, but animals weren't just lining up to be slaughtered just because there was a handful of corn and some apples out there.
I've hunted bears in Maine, and Ontario over bait and had very similar results. Bear hunting over bait is a completely different game than hunting deer over bait and there's much more involved in it than most hunters get involved with when they just show up for a week. I could go on and on, but the point being that just because a person hunts over bait doesn't mean that they've got some guarantee that they're going to bag some prized animal or even see one. The idea that a bait pile is wrong but the corner of the field where the farm equipment spills corn is just perfectly fine in equally as ludicrous. I'm not saying that a giant corn field is a sure thing, but it's a little naive to pretend like a field full of freshly harvested corn doesn't attract wildlife.
We all hunt, we all enjoy hunting and that's all there needs to be in it. Instead of spending all our time and efforts arguing over hunting over bait versus hunting in a field, or hunting with a bow vs a rifle vs a crossbow vs a muzzleloader or whatever I think the time would be better spent trying to figure out a way to get the next generation into hunting so that not every woods out there gets turned into a subdivision where people stay inside watching tv. Picking each other apart on how we choose to hunt based on our own situations doesn't serve the hunting community well as a whole.
By the way, good luck hunting this year everyone. I'll be spending opening day of gun season holding my baby girl for her second birthday party. Some things are more important.
I'm curious how many of the guys knocking the baited hunts have actually been on one. I've been on a couple and I'll be happy to share.
Back in 2002 I was hunting deer in the Upper Peninsula at a "lodge" and it was a baited hunt. I had a family member with me and at the time neither of us had any experience or really knew anything about hunting at all other than we were interested in trying it out. We found the place because it was dirt cheap and that's what we could afford. The bait pile was some corn and a couple of apples that wouldn't have filled a 5 gallon bucket up a quarter of the way. Between the two of us in seperate stands a mile apart for 3 or 4 days, we only saw one doe and I let her walk. Their weren't hundreds of world class bucks lined up at the dinner bell with perfectly formed antlers. We saw one lousy doe and I let her go on by.
Couple years later I went back to that same place myself. On opening day I saw one doe in the morning that walked by a very similar bate pile and didn't even care that it was there. I let her walk. Later that night just as I was getting ready to get down from the tree another doe and a barely 4pt buck came along the path of the woods and they stopped and had a couple nibbles and snacks. I knew the guy was on a hot date that was looking good for him and from one dude to another I couldn't bring myself to ruin that for him even though it would have meant a first deer & buck for me. That was it for opening day and I spent the rest of the week looking at the bait pile and not seeing another deer the whole time. There were no tracks or any kind of sign that the bait was being hit throughout the night either. Hard to imagine for some guys, but animals weren't just lining up to be slaughtered just because there was a handful of corn and some apples out there.
I've hunted bears in Maine, and Ontario over bait and had very similar results. Bear hunting over bait is a completely different game than hunting deer over bait and there's much more involved in it than most hunters get involved with when they just show up for a week. I could go on and on, but the point being that just because a person hunts over bait doesn't mean that they've got some guarantee that they're going to bag some prized animal or even see one. The idea that a bait pile is wrong but the corner of the field where the farm equipment spills corn is just perfectly fine in equally as ludicrous. I'm not saying that a giant corn field is a sure thing, but it's a little naive to pretend like a field full of freshly harvested corn doesn't attract wildlife.
We all hunt, we all enjoy hunting and that's all there needs to be in it. Instead of spending all our time and efforts arguing over hunting over bait versus hunting in a field, or hunting with a bow vs a rifle vs a crossbow vs a muzzleloader or whatever I think the time would be better spent trying to figure out a way to get the next generation into hunting so that not every woods out there gets turned into a subdivision where people stay inside watching tv. Picking each other apart on how we choose to hunt based on our own situations doesn't serve the hunting community well as a whole.
By the way, good luck hunting this year everyone. I'll be spending opening day of gun season holding my baby girl for her second birthday party. Some things are more important.
Good post teddy12b..
At the end of the day the only person we should try to satisfy by our method of hunting is - ourselves. If I am happy with my hunting then I could not care less what others think.
Would I hunt over bait? No, but that is a personal choice as I could in Kentucky and be perfectly legal. To each his own as long as it is legal. Like i said this rule is the most mixed up one going in Indiana.
At the end of the day the only person we should try to satisfy by our method of hunting is - ourselves. If I am happy with my hunting then I could not care less what others think.
Would I hunt over bait? No, but that is a personal choice as I could in Kentucky and be perfectly legal. To each his own as long as it is legal. Like i said this rule is the most mixed up one going in Indiana.
The Drifter
Marksman
Gosh , Deer hunting is fun , sitting in my stand watching the day come alive . The birds start chirping , owls landing in a near by tree WOO Woo . Squirrels running on the ground and in trees barking at each other , and at me. I see a fox , or a opossum walking in front of me ,a raccoon digging in a tree stump . All these things and more , the smell of a fresh morning , the first breeze of the day, yes and all the scouting and preparing for the Deer hunting season . If all is done properly , there still is no guarantee of harvesting a Deer. I do not bait , I do not use trail cams , I bow hunt with a compound bow . I do not get a Deer every year , but I do ok . Do whats legal for where you hunt , hunt with the weapon you want , and try to make a good kill . Above all enjoy the hunt and enjoy what is around you .
Look, I don't care one bit how anyone else hunts. It affects me zero. My issue is out of all the people I have ever discussed this with not a single one is honest about it. You just gave some reasons why a guy may want to bait, then spent the next 500 words explaining that baiting doesn't really work and is no different than a corn field. THEN WHY DO IT!? Just once I would like someone to say "hey, I want to bait because I have trouble getting on deer. I don't have the time or the interest to scout, learn deer behavior or pattern them. I just want to shoot some" I'm fine with that. It interests me not at all but if it's what someone wants, more power to them. But don't tell me it doesn't work, or is the same as a field, or the same as fishing etc. Etc. Indiana has a ton of public land also. I do most of my hunting on public land in Vigo and Sullivan counties. I do not have prime honey holes.
How's this:
Hey, I want to be able to bait because I have about 2 acres of land where deer could pass through, but until the fruit trees grow a few more years or another food source shows up they'll have no reason to stop by. I have trouble getting deer to do anything other that pass through in the middle of the night, and I'd like to see some during daylight. I don't have the time or enough land to scout. I can look out my living room window and see all of the property I'm able to hunt. I have 3 kids, a happy wife, and a business to run so no I'm not going to be some die hard hunter who puts that before everything else in his life and teaches his kids that they come second place, or has a wife that hates that he hunts, or have problems at the business that I just cast off because I've got to get in the woods. I don't own enough land to "scout it". When I'm fortunate enough to go on hunting trips for a week I do it then. I learn deer behavior through trail camera pictures. Last year a neighbor of mine had an apple tree that was bursting with apples and we threw buckets of them out back in front of a trail camera and I got some amazing pictures of deer, usually in the 11:30pm to 5:00am range. Even though I never took a shot at any of those deer, it was still very exciting for me to be able to see the pictures and it's something that wouldn't have happened without something in front of the camera. I absolutely just want to shoot a deer. I don't set my standards by what I see on TV shows and I don't think that a deer having a huge rack or a tiny rack has anything to do with any of my accomplishments in life. I'd just like to get some meat that lived free and wasn't processed like most things we can buy on the market shelf. There was a time when I hunted for antlers, but I grew up and now I just look at it like a bonus.
Hopefully that satisfies what you've been wanting to hear.
I understand that my post rubbed you the wrong way and I apologize, sometimes I come off stronger than I mean to be. That being said, your reply was perfect. I can respect that position. Clearly stated reasons without apologies or trying to make it more than it is or traditional hunting less than it is. Good luck on your property this year....... On a side note I would like to add that I am a "die hard" hunter and I also have a wife and three young boys. They are involved from beginning to end. Shed hunting in late winter, scouting and hanging stands late summer, checking cams year round and sitting in a blind with me even before they could hunt themselves clear down to butchering and processing in "assembly line" fashion. It's a family affair and no one is neglected or made to feel "second" to anyone. I understand what you are saying but hope you realize it doesn't have to be that way.
If I came off as being offended or offensive my self I appologize. I like it when people can express their point of view with some passion and still remain civil. Hopefully we did that.
I'm happy for you that you're a diehard hunter and I'm impressed with how you're teaching your boys. Sounds to me like you're doing a good job with them and I like to hear that because eventually my two little girls are going to need to marry some boys that were brought up right and I want them to have plenty to pick from.Last year I actually bought a huge ground blind hoping I could start taking my oldest hunting and spending some more time together outdoors. Unfortunately a nasty storm destroyed that ground blind and we're back to square one.
Ultimately I don't really care if a person hunts over some kind of bait or not. Different strokes for different folks. I just people to understand the truths about it without any misconceptions about it.
I'll genuinely wish anyone good luck in this upcoming hunting season.
Ilikeguns we are brothers from another mother , I too am a die hard... Eat sleep and think deer season... I hunt private land that Ive hunted for 30years and if you put the time in you will get your chances, I take my vacation around deer season and my wife knows Im a die hard and respects it, hell she will tell ya she is a widow for 3 mo. out of the year... I live to hunt and hunt to live.... Love me some whitetails the greatest animal on earth... But I shoot does for the meat and hunt bucks for the trophy, but to each there own when it comes to the way they hunt... I don't bait deer and wouldn't if I could, with that being said I do put some corn and a deer block out in front of my cameras about may thru aug. just to see what deer are where and what propertys I want to start out hunting .. But I leave cameras out all season but move them to scrapes and check them every now and then to see if a monster has moved in to the area then adjust my hunt from there... When I was young I would shoot the first buck that come by but after you've hunted as long as I have its more about the hunt now, thats why I shoot does for the meat and hunt trophy bucks for the trophy or "the hunt its self"... I knock on doors every year to try to pick up new land you get alot of NO's but you get some YES's too, all you have to do is ask... hell they ain't gonna eat ya, the worst they will do is say NO !!!! Good luck to all and be safe... 
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The law used to be (many moons ago) that as long as any "unnatural" bait was removed 30 days prior to the season, it was good. However... that was changed to the current murky reading...
(copied and pasted)
Fair Chase
It is illegal to use bait, salt, snares, dogs or other domesticated animals to take deer. Bait is considered any product that is transported into a hunting area and placed there for animal consumption. Baits can be in the form of salt, mineral blocks, prepared solid or liquid, or piles of apples or other food that is intended for the animal to eat. An area is considered to be baited for 10 days after the removal of the bait and any affected soil.
Not long after that regulation was (very quietly) changed, my father and his hunting buddy arrived at our hunting property to find a CO waiting. Said that my father had been baiting. Dad stated that the salt blocks in question had been removed over 30 days prior to opening day so it was legal. The CO stated that he had taken soil samples, done his testing, and if the property was hunted that season he'd have the weapons, vehicles, jail time, and right to hunt ever again taken. Apparently it was the "any affected soil" part.
So it seems very unclear, as most of us "laymen" don't have a way of determining how much soil is affected...
Also found this, so it seem like if any attractant you buy could me "meant for consumption", it's no bueno as well... Though scent only seems to be spelled out as OK
The Department of Natural Resources is reminding Indiana hunters that even though deer attractants found at retail stores may be purchased and used in the wild, hunting near them is illegal.
Attractants are considered bait.
Indiana regulations prohibit the hunting of deer with the use or aid of bait, which is defined as “a food that is transported and placed for consumption, including, but not limited to, piles of corn and apples placed in the field; a prepared solid or liquid that is manufactured and intended for consumption by livestock or wild deer, including, but not limited to, commercial baits and food supplements; salt; or mineral supplements.”
This prohibition includes artificial products marketed under names such as Deer Co-Cain, Buck Jam, Trophy Rock, as well as mineral blocks, salt blocks, and even natural foods such as corn and apples.
“Basically, if you place anything that isn't grown in the area and hunt there, it's illegal,” said Lt. Larry Morrison, outdoor education director for DNR Law Enforcement. “Hunting next to a corn field or from an apple tree is legal, but placing corn or apples under your tree stand would put you in conflict with current Indiana law.”
An area is considered baited for 10 days after the product and the affected soil is removed from an area.
Odor differs from bait. Cover scents or scent attractants are legal to use when hunting.
Archery season currently is underway in Indiana and continues through Jan. 5. The urban zone segment in designated areas continues through Jan. 31.
The most popular segment of Indiana’s deer hunting season--firearms--begins Nov. 16 and ends Dec. 1, followed by the muzzleloader season (Dec. 7-22) and the special antlerless season (Dec. 26-Jan. 5, 2014).
A violation of Indiana’s no baiting regulation is a Class C misdemeanor.
Posted 11/5/2013
(copied and pasted)
Fair Chase
It is illegal to use bait, salt, snares, dogs or other domesticated animals to take deer. Bait is considered any product that is transported into a hunting area and placed there for animal consumption. Baits can be in the form of salt, mineral blocks, prepared solid or liquid, or piles of apples or other food that is intended for the animal to eat. An area is considered to be baited for 10 days after the removal of the bait and any affected soil.
Not long after that regulation was (very quietly) changed, my father and his hunting buddy arrived at our hunting property to find a CO waiting. Said that my father had been baiting. Dad stated that the salt blocks in question had been removed over 30 days prior to opening day so it was legal. The CO stated that he had taken soil samples, done his testing, and if the property was hunted that season he'd have the weapons, vehicles, jail time, and right to hunt ever again taken. Apparently it was the "any affected soil" part.
So it seems very unclear, as most of us "laymen" don't have a way of determining how much soil is affected...
Also found this, so it seem like if any attractant you buy could me "meant for consumption", it's no bueno as well... Though scent only seems to be spelled out as OK
The Department of Natural Resources is reminding Indiana hunters that even though deer attractants found at retail stores may be purchased and used in the wild, hunting near them is illegal.
Attractants are considered bait.
Indiana regulations prohibit the hunting of deer with the use or aid of bait, which is defined as “a food that is transported and placed for consumption, including, but not limited to, piles of corn and apples placed in the field; a prepared solid or liquid that is manufactured and intended for consumption by livestock or wild deer, including, but not limited to, commercial baits and food supplements; salt; or mineral supplements.”
This prohibition includes artificial products marketed under names such as Deer Co-Cain, Buck Jam, Trophy Rock, as well as mineral blocks, salt blocks, and even natural foods such as corn and apples.
“Basically, if you place anything that isn't grown in the area and hunt there, it's illegal,” said Lt. Larry Morrison, outdoor education director for DNR Law Enforcement. “Hunting next to a corn field or from an apple tree is legal, but placing corn or apples under your tree stand would put you in conflict with current Indiana law.”
An area is considered baited for 10 days after the product and the affected soil is removed from an area.
Odor differs from bait. Cover scents or scent attractants are legal to use when hunting.
Archery season currently is underway in Indiana and continues through Jan. 5. The urban zone segment in designated areas continues through Jan. 31.
The most popular segment of Indiana’s deer hunting season--firearms--begins Nov. 16 and ends Dec. 1, followed by the muzzleloader season (Dec. 7-22) and the special antlerless season (Dec. 26-Jan. 5, 2014).
A violation of Indiana’s no baiting regulation is a Class C misdemeanor.
Posted 11/5/2013
JeremiahJohnson
Master
I'm not going to re-state for the umteenth time my position on baiting, but what ever your opinion of baiting the baiting laws in Indiana are full of terrible loop holes. I've discussed all the following with more than one CO during helping out with hunter education classes. As it stands right now:
If you hunt a trail that leads to a feeder, even if the feeder is on someone else's property, even if you don't know one is there, you can be ticketed for baiting and there's no distance min/max requirement.
Rub synthetic apple fragrance all over a tree near your stand and you're legal, rub an apple from your lunch on a tree near your stand - Baiting.
Open a container of synthetic persimmon smell near your stand and you're legal, move persimmons under a persimmon tree - even one foot - and you're baiting. Pick up persimmons from under a persimmon tree you are hunting, walk over to a nearby tree and smear them to freshen the smell - you're a baiter.
Even had one CO tell me this - just him - if he checked a bow hunter who had a bag of persimmons on the way to his stand - even if he claimed he was going to eat them, not use them for baiting, he'd ticket him for baiting.
If you hunt a trail that leads to a feeder, even if the feeder is on someone else's property, even if you don't know one is there, you can be ticketed for baiting and there's no distance min/max requirement.
Rub synthetic apple fragrance all over a tree near your stand and you're legal, rub an apple from your lunch on a tree near your stand - Baiting.
Open a container of synthetic persimmon smell near your stand and you're legal, move persimmons under a persimmon tree - even one foot - and you're baiting. Pick up persimmons from under a persimmon tree you are hunting, walk over to a nearby tree and smear them to freshen the smell - you're a baiter.
Even had one CO tell me this - just him - if he checked a bow hunter who had a bag of persimmons on the way to his stand - even if he claimed he was going to eat them, not use them for baiting, he'd ticket him for baiting.
Wife started feeding some of the local deer after watching them eat out of the bird feeders this winter, stopped when spring came and then started again when the fawns arrived. She likes watching them in the back yard, they've become something like pets. I'll just be hunting farther out this year.
JeremiahJohnson
Master
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