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Ballard Rifling vs. Microgroove in Marlin 336
- Thread starter antiquejd
- Start date
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35 Rem is a very fine cartridge for what it was designed for, packs a nice punch for the package it comes in. My ONLY issue is ammo availability. It's getting a bit harder to find on shelves. If you reload for it, then that issue is pretty moot. As for Ballard vs. Micro Groove rifling, depends on what you plan on feeding through it. Micro Groove WILL shoot cast bullets IF they are fairly hard and sized correctly. Try shooting a soft cast slug and accuracy can suffer. Ballard rifling was designed for cast bullets. It allows the use of softer lead without fear of the rifling stripping lead. Even if a softer slug is a bit undersize, it will obturate and engage the rifling. 35 is a versatile cartridge allowing use of jacketed and cast loads with nice accuracy. I would have no qualms loading a gas check lead slug and heading off for the woods. Just remember that ANY lead projectile is only capable of a max of around 1600 FPS unless it is gas checked. In short, Ballard or Micro can produce good accuracy when fed correctly. Hope this helps.
Thanks Armorer. I am going to reload and so not too worried about ammunition. From your post, I would probably choose the Ballard because of flexibility rather than superiority....I am purchasing the gun to modify the cartridge to hunt deer. Want to be able to take one if opportunity allows but just being out will be worthwhile. Thanks.
snapping turtle
Grandmaster
The last of the Ballard rifled 336 marlins were made in 1954. After that they switched to microgrove and then lately the Ballard came back with the XLR and SDT/STD models. Old model Ballard rifling were cut one groove at a time. I believe that mircogoove was a time saving feature on barrels. Microgrove also changed over the years with 16/18 groove and 22 groove barrels. I highly doubt they still cut the Ballard stuff one groove at a time.
I have loaded lead bullets in Ballard and microgrove in 30-30 and 35 rem. slug the bore and go with proper size bullets as the rifles vary from year and as the machining wore over time with use. I found that I got my best groups with microgroove barrels and jacketed bullets driven to about 88 to 93 percent of max loads. Lead with both requires a mix of the lead hardness and speed or you get either leading or jumping speeds of the chronograph. It was much harder to get the lead to shoot well in either for me than jacketed bullets. I found the 200 grain core loc's and the 158 grain pistol bullets were the sweet spots for what I wanted to do with deer and groundhogs. I would not use pistol bullets on deer to explosive but on a groundhog you could shake them after a hit and feel the bones rattle.
I have loaded lead bullets in Ballard and microgrove in 30-30 and 35 rem. slug the bore and go with proper size bullets as the rifles vary from year and as the machining wore over time with use. I found that I got my best groups with microgroove barrels and jacketed bullets driven to about 88 to 93 percent of max loads. Lead with both requires a mix of the lead hardness and speed or you get either leading or jumping speeds of the chronograph. It was much harder to get the lead to shoot well in either for me than jacketed bullets. I found the 200 grain core loc's and the 158 grain pistol bullets were the sweet spots for what I wanted to do with deer and groundhogs. I would not use pistol bullets on deer to explosive but on a groundhog you could shake them after a hit and feel the bones rattle.
snapping turtle
Grandmaster
The 1952 should be a waffle top (unless someone taped it for a scope) and have the bigger forearm. It should have a serial number starting with a "j". Don' t tap a waffle top for a scope.
Thanks, I did notice the waffle top you are describing. I am not educated enough to recognize distinguishing features. Why is it wrong to tap the top for a scope? And are they then side mounts that should be used or not readily scopeable (Howard Cosell word).
snapping turtle
Grandmaster
An unmolested waffle top marlin is going to be worth much more money in the near term than having one that is drilled and tapped. Scopes were not common on guns in the 1950's but as they became more popular more people drilled and tapped the receivers for scope mounting. There are side holes on the receiver for a peep sighting system. Prices on marlin guns when they used to be well made are going up at a rapid pace.
A perch bellied forearm unmolested Waffle top with Ballard rifling in 35 rem is one sweet old gun to many marlin collectors, now it may never be worth a pre 64 Winchester value but it will be a collector for sure.
Now if that rifle is a 336 SC (sporting carbine 2/3 tube length of barrel) or a
336 DL (deluxe ) then it is even better rifle.
Here is my 1958 microgroove (22 groove) perch belly forearm waffle top 336 SC with peep the way john marlin intended.
that one now also wears a period correct front sight hood. This item is easy to loose and lots of hunters took them off. The hood if round and correct for age is worth a good 40 dollars.
A perch bellied forearm unmolested Waffle top with Ballard rifling in 35 rem is one sweet old gun to many marlin collectors, now it may never be worth a pre 64 Winchester value but it will be a collector for sure.
Now if that rifle is a 336 SC (sporting carbine 2/3 tube length of barrel) or a
336 DL (deluxe ) then it is even better rifle.
Here is my 1958 microgroove (22 groove) perch belly forearm waffle top 336 SC with peep the way john marlin intended.
that one now also wears a period correct front sight hood. This item is easy to loose and lots of hunters took them off. The hood if round and correct for age is worth a good 40 dollars.
I am with you...Last year I sold a a ugly 39A..with the Ballard rifling. It was very accurate. I have never owned a 39 that was not though...One thing for sure..the quality in the 50s was top notch.
Very nice gun. I like the sight you have on it as well. I went back and reviewed the pictures of the gun I was considering and have decided to pass on it. It has the waffle but has two holes drilled and tapped. I will just be patient and find the right one....Thanks!
snapping turtle
Grandmaster
The sight is a Lyman peep for the 336 and it is steel. They do still make them but they are no longer steel. I have a link on my PC to where I ordered the round peep sight front but I have a CPU fan issue and it wants to overheat. I have a Marbles dovetail blank where the factory buckhorn sight was original. That steel sight is worth about what I have in the rifle but I got a good deal on it back in the day. The round front sight hoods are easy to loose and often come off it you transport them In a soft gun case they catch the fabric and come off. I found one after a purchase in the soft case weeks after I bought it. In the 1980 and 1990 336 rifles could be purchased at the Louisville shop cheap after hunting season. Many had been hunting one or two years and stored and a closet for a couple of decades.
Like I said the microgroove to me shot better than the Ballard rifles. I could get both to shoot lead but accuracy wise the microgroove barrels was better overall. With all the newer bullets and advances in bonded bullets I see little advantage in pure cast lead slugs unless you have a large amount of lead. For factory rounds the rem core loc's have shot well in all 336 riles I have owned. A pure chunk of lead is ok but a bonded bullet seems to preform better on expansion and is easier to load to speeds that allow the expansion. They like jacketed soft points.
Some of my favorites in the 336 lineup are the texans (straight grip), the DL (deluxe ) with the raised comb stocks, and I really enjoy the SC (sporting carbines) with 2/3 mags. Nothing wrong with buying a pre molested waffle top just drilling the holes in a unmolested one. Do not pay a premium for a tapped waffle top but do not overlook a good deal because one has been molested.
Like I said the microgroove to me shot better than the Ballard rifles. I could get both to shoot lead but accuracy wise the microgroove barrels was better overall. With all the newer bullets and advances in bonded bullets I see little advantage in pure cast lead slugs unless you have a large amount of lead. For factory rounds the rem core loc's have shot well in all 336 riles I have owned. A pure chunk of lead is ok but a bonded bullet seems to preform better on expansion and is easier to load to speeds that allow the expansion. They like jacketed soft points.
Some of my favorites in the 336 lineup are the texans (straight grip), the DL (deluxe ) with the raised comb stocks, and I really enjoy the SC (sporting carbines) with 2/3 mags. Nothing wrong with buying a pre molested waffle top just drilling the holes in a unmolested one. Do not pay a premium for a tapped waffle top but do not overlook a good deal because one has been molested.
