BATFE NEW AMMO REGS

[m82mike]

BATFE has classified .223 - 6.5 Grendel - 6.8 SPC ammo as 'pistol ammo'.

This is going to limit bullet choice on these rounds.

Mike

 

[Cwood]

source?

 

[dboz]

Why would it limit bullet choices? Sorry for the noob question, but I have never heard of this before.

 

[gunman41mag]

So now you have to be 21 year old to be able to buy it

 

[Slapstick]

Why would it limit bullet choices? Sorry for the noob question, but I have never heard of this before.

If it's classified as pistol ammo then steel core penetrator's would be illegal ie. all that good NATO 855 & ss109 hitting the market since the US switched bullets. Armor piercing hand gun ammo is illegal.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Just googled it and cant find anything

 

[Jtgarner]

Also, I don't think you can have certain bullet types in pistols. So that means that some bullets that you used to be able to get for your rifles you would no longer be able to get because they are classified as "pistol calibers"

If it's classified as pistol ammo then steel core penetrator's would be illegal ie. all that good NATO 855 & ss109 hitting the market since the US switched bullets. Armor piercing hand gun ammo is illegal.

Yeah, what he said...

 

[iamaclone45]

source?

Ditto.

And PLEASE do not come back on here and say you heard this at the counter of your favorite gun shop.

 

[mrjarrell]

Here's a link, but I couldn't find anything from BATFU on it. This has links to other places. Take it for what it's worth.

SayUncle » BATF has ruled .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC cartridges are now pistol cartridges?

I'm not sold on this one. Could just be BATFU lying to someone or someone not telling the whole story.

 

[Shooter1]

The Communist are taking over head for the hills! I hope this is bull.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I thought in regards to pistol ammo and AP (in regards to M855) is the content percentage of the steel compared to copper and lead in M855 keeps it from being considered "AP" ammo. I don't think the mere existance of steel counts it as AP. Also, M855 isn't AP, it's "enhanced penetration".

Okay, and a "proprietor" of an obscure ammo company isn't necessarily a solid source. Unless I see an ATF publication on it, this is yet another bunk BS rumor, such as ammo microstamping, bans on lifetime Indiana carry permits and Lady Gaga being a man. (Huge fan of her here!)

Here is the stance:

The definition of AP ammo is at 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17):
"(B) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' means-

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.




4) CONSTRUCTION - The bullet must either have a core made ENTIRELY out of one or more of the listed metals, or be a full jacketed type bullet with a jacket comprising more that 25% of its weight. Thus SS109/M855 .223 (5.56mm) bullets would not be covered, because their core is only partly steel, and partly lead. Lead is not a listed metal, and bullets with cores made partly out of lead are OK. ATF has expressly ruled that SS109/M855 bullets are not covered.
5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant. 6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

Now, that being said, what about Barnes DPX? What about the usage of Barnes Banded Solids (45 grain .224 bullets used for varmint hunting)? DPX is weird to me, as it's solid copper and intended for handguns.

Sorry for the thread divergence, but I stand by my statement on the website listed earlier is bunk, no names, no solid information and no information on the poster...
​

 

[shooter521]

What Disposable Heart said.

 

[johntheplinker]

IIRC 223 has been classified as a handgun round for a long time, like since the first handgun was chambered in it. Doing a little looking, I found that the bullets in question are made of bronze. Section 921, 17 (B) of the GCA states that a bullet made primarily out of bronze is considered armor piercing. 27 C.F.R. Part 178.37 says that it is illegal to sell armor piercing handgun ammo to anybody except government agencies. The above sections of the GCA are what was, and still are, used to stop importation of steel core 7.62.39 ammo, along with a bunch of other calibers.

The reason Barnes bullets are still good to go is that they are made of regular copper, and not beryllium copper. Copper good, bronze bad.

 

[Disposable Heart]

What Disposable Heart said.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFffffaaaaace!

DH got one right? ZAM!

 

[revsaxon]

6.5 Grendel as a handgun ammo?

Ill take some of whatever the ATF was smoking...

 

[johntheplinker]

6.5 Grendel as a handgun ammo?

Ill take some of whatever the ATF was smoking...

I'd pass on that, whatever it is rots your brain.

 

[Slapstick]

I thought in regards to pistol ammo and AP (in regards to M855) is the content percentage of the steel compared to copper and lead in M855 keeps it from being considered "AP" ammo. I don't think the mere existance of steel counts it as AP. Also, M855 isn't AP, it's "enhanced penetration".

Okay, and a "proprietor" of an obscure ammo company isn't necessarily a solid source. Unless I see an ATF publication on it, this is yet another bunk BS rumor, such as ammo microstamping, bans on lifetime Indiana carry permits and Lady Gaga being a man. (Huge fan of her here!)

Here is the stance:

The definition of AP ammo is at 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17):

"(B) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' means-

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.




4) CONSTRUCTION - The bullet must either have a core made ENTIRELY out of one or more of the listed metals, or be a full jacketed type bullet with a jacket comprising more that 25% of its weight. Thus SS109/M855 .223 (5.56mm) bullets would not be covered, because their core is only partly steel, and partly lead. Lead is not a listed metal, and bullets with cores made partly out of lead are OK. ATF has expressly ruled that SS109/M855 bullets are not covered.
5) Hardness of the bullet is irrelevant. 6) Ability to actually penetrate any kind of soft body armor is irrelevant.

Now, that being said, what about Barnes DPX? What about the usage of Barnes Banded Solids (45 grain .224 bullets used for varmint hunting)? DPX is weird to me, as it's solid copper and intended for handguns.

Sorry for the thread divergence, but I stand by my statement on the website listed earlier is bunk, no names, no solid information and no information on the poster...
​

Thanks for posting that and clarifying that the .223 M855 bullet isn't covered in the reg. I always like learning something new.

 

[mertbl]

I just read about this over on ar15. Its a posting on a vendor named elite ammo's web page. Apparently they were making solid brass bullets but calling them copper alloy. They got there hands smacked by the atf and are throwing a hissy. My understanding these aren't new rules. Simply elite trying to skirt the law and got caught.

 

[Plinkuh]

Just googled it and cant find anything

Was looking for a link, didn't see it. Went back and used my eyes, saw it posted at the bottom of page 1

 

[johntheplinker]

I just read about this over on ar15. Its a posting on a vendor named elite ammo's web page. Apparently they were making solid brass bullets but calling them copper alloy. They got there hands smacked by the atf and are throwing a hissy. My understanding these aren't new rules. Simply elite trying to skirt the law and got caught.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case. Irregardless of how stupid the rules are, we still have to play by them.