Beggars Off Highway Exits

[loudpedal]

Every time that I think that I have come up with some new prejudice that I can use to delineate the needy from the lazy, I see or hear something to shift that paradigm. So here is my most current strategy:

If a person is regularly by the side of the highway - NO
Near a liquor store - NO
Inside of or directly in front of a commercial retail business - HELL NO
Next to an ATM - NO (and they will probably not do that to anyone again soon.)

On the other hand, If I approach them as a result of watching their behavior - yes.
If I am on the fence I will sometimes offer a trade; I will give you X for Y minutes of your story. To some extent Y determines X. Sometimes that story can be far more fulfilling than the value of X. This in turn causes the next shift in paradigm. Ahh... this must be the circle of conscience. Still in the back of my mind I always wonder if I may be looking an angel in the face.

I have recently taken to carrying gift cards to fast food restaurants in my truck, this helps me to feel a little more assured that the gift will be used for food. I also carry a firearm in my truck in case I ever need to add emphasis to the aforementioned NO answers. (Only if I feel endangered.)

Bottom line is I still don't know the answer to charity. That is why I read these posts.

 

[foszoe]

I ask for ID and a receipt so I can deduct any donations off my taxes.

 

[stephen87]

I saw a panhandler in downtown Indy a week ago.

The cardboard sign he was holding, read: "Not going to lie. Its for wine or gin."

Saw him a couple of years ago. For his honesty, he got $5. Lol

I'm all for helping the needy, but I am sick of all of these beggars who hang out on medians and off of highway exits. I'm even sicker of seeing people give them money. How naïve can people get? These beggars aren't needy; they're scam artists who are making hundreds of dollars per day. The majority of them are taking this money to their dope dealers or to the liquor store.

I know, many people feel sorry for these people, and I'm sure a few of them really are in dire straits--but most of them clearly aren't. If you don't believe that the vast majority of these people are actors and scam artists, you obviously haven't been paying attention. Even the liberal, mainstream news media has noticed it. Their operations are far more sophisticated from the folks who are shaking a cup downtown and begging for spare change. They have professional-looking signs (some are even bilingual), they have dedicated turfs that the leaders of the operation "own," and they work in shifts. Many of their signs are left intentionally vague so they can avoid fraud charges (e.g. saying "one penny please," or "unemployed, please help" vs "homeless, single parent of 5 kids). Their calculated efforts lead me to believe that there probably isn't an intellectual deficit (in other words, these are not the people who were released from Central State 20 years ago).

A lot of the regular beggars have been standing in the same spots for years, which leads me to believe that their situations aren't acute. There are millions of desperate people in the United States, many of whom work tirelessly to improve their situations. This is a far cry from begging on a highway exit for years on end. Why do hard working citizens reward that? All it does is enable their behavior. The simple truth is they're making a killing--all tax free. If this was not lucrative, they would have moved on long ago. Most of them are certainly not driving BMWs, but I've seen them in line for booze at Community Spirits and wandering around in dope-infested neighborhoods.

Most of these beggars' antics are protected by law, and there is very little that can be done to combat it. The only thing that can be done is to raise awareness of the scams. Give your money to charities that help those who are truly needy.

You must get off at 465 and 37 on the south side, either that or Holt and 70. Lol I dont even look at them anymore, it's ridiculous.

 

[BE Mike]

I always want my donations to go to the truly needy. I donate through my church, Salvation Army, Red Cross, USO, etc. It's not perfect, but more of the money goes where it is needed than if I give money to someone who holds a sign or simply claims to need it. The truly needy can get help from these organized charities. Most churches and groups who deal with people in need have gained street smarts and can separate the fiction from the non-fiction.

 

[tom1025]

Saw him a couple of years ago. For his honesty, he got $5. Lol


You must get off at 465 and 37 on the south side, either that or Holt and 70. Lol I dont even look at them anymore, it's ridiculous.

There's a lady around 70 and Holt thats hard up for money. She's offered guys at work jobs that involve blowing for $7.50. Supposedly no one has taken her up on it. But I have my doudts. I can't wait until they start using the new electric fence and security gates around the employee parking lot.

 

[stephen87]

There's a lady around 70 and Holt thats hard up for money. She's offered guys at work jobs that involve blowing for $7.50. Supposedly no one has taken her up on it. But I have my doudts. I can't wait until they start using the new electric fence and security gates around the employee parking lot.

That would be the lady. She stands right on the median with a sign.

 

[Raskolnikov]

My son and I have stopped and bought food for them before. I will help feed you if you are hungry, but I do not give money to someone who, it appears, does not handle money very well.

Absolutely. I once had a fellow, who looked truly homeless, approach me at Speedway. He told me that he was hungry. He didn't want any money, but was wondering if I would buy him a hotdog or something. I bought him a few hotdogs, he took them, and was on his way. I had no problem with this.

Conversely, beggars often come into my church. They give plenty of sob stories, and while we want to help them, we have a policy that the church will no longer give out money. Individual members can give their money as they choose. Often, these people ask for funds for food. We have plenty of food in our kitchen and these people are welcome to eat with us. However, most of them complain and tell us that we're not Christians after we've offered them a meal!

Where does this sense of entitlement come?

 

[tom1025]

Absolutely. I once had a fellow, who looked truly homeless, approach me at Speedway. He told me that he was hungry. He didn't want any money, but was wondering if I would buy him a hotdog or something. I bought him a few hotdogs, he took them, and was on his way. I had no problem with this.

Conversely, beggars often come into my church. They give plenty of sob stories, and while we want to help them, we have a policy that the church will no longer give out money. Individual members can give their money as they choose. Often, these people ask for funds for food. We have plenty of food in our kitchen and these people are welcome to eat with us. However, most of them complain and tell us that we're not Christians after we've offered them a meal!

Where does this sense of entitlement come?

The few bad apples ruin for the ones that truly need it. I was cussed out by a lady a few weeks ago for not giving her gas money. My dad offered a guy who was supposedly hard up a job at his Ford dealership washing cars a few years ago. The guy turned it down. Said he dosnt want to work.

 

[Ted]

......Where does this sense of entitlement come?

Click on the graphic link.

 

[kickbacked]

Pt. 1: "The True Payout to Panhandling"

They run a business around here, one lady who was actually pretty decent looking got some guy to give her a job cleaning his house. She ran off with a ton of his valuables, i know sounds like a divorce story but it was really a beggar, and it turned out she didnt even have custody of the children her sign said she was supporting

 

[IndyDave1776]

Most of the territory has been covered one way or another. I would say that there are three questions in action here. The first is 'why do people beg?' and the other is 'why do people give?' They in turn lead to the third question of 'what is the right answer?'

The first will boil down to one of two possibilities: 1., the beggar is in need and has run out of other workable solutions either in fact or through unawareness of their existence. 2., You are looking at a fraud.

The second can have multiple answers: 1. Some people give from basic kindness and concern, or other personal feelings of true right and proper. 2., Others give out of a sense of social and/or religious obligation (i.e., because they are 'supposed to). 3., Others yet give as a way to make themselves feel that they are better people and/or to assuage some sense of guilt as our leftists try to instill in anyone who has enjoyed enough success in life to live indoors and eat regularly.

What to do about it? Personally I do most of my giving with those I personally know to be in need, which often requires care to be taken in the mode of giving. In one case a few years back, there was a family with several children who cold get all the food aid they needed and then some but were struggling in other areas. Heating oil was a particular challenge. The principal problem was a man who was/is allergic to work. In this case, someone else from church gave the family a good used wood furnace. I gave them a chainsaw. Cash would have evaporated, but durable goods generally won't, especially when really needed.

Another thought on my mind is that if I were to give by way of a third party, it would be either a local charity with which I am familiar or else the Salvation Army. The Executive Director of the American Red Cross receives over $600K/year last time I checked. The top person at the Salvation Army received as of the same day I was comparing pay $13K per year plus an apartment (which I am sure is modest). I feel comfortable with the notion that an organization that pays its chief executive less than half what most all of us who are out of school make is putting a much greater percentage of its income into the purpose than one which pays lavish salaries and appears to have much more overhead in other areas as well.

In the end, the problem is very complex and that old pearl of wisdom that giving a man a fish feeds him for a day and teaching him to fish feeds him for life applies very much. A fraud cannot be reached because he has no desire to work for a living. A person in genuine need may be willing but will have to overcome a host of problems before becoming viable of his or her own volition. A genuinely needy beggar may have few/no marketable skills, no job opportunities if he/she did have skills, may well have some substance issues, may well have family or other associates who routinely drag them back into the cesspit any time they make an effort to climb out, or may have that "F" word in their resume that prevents them from exercising all their constitutional rights and shuts them out of most respectable jobs. On that note, I would remind you that once upon a time a felony conviction required a truly egregious crime, and that this is no longer the case.

You can (and truthfully so) declare that it is not your problem and move on. You can act on a genuine desire to help the less fortunate by doing something that may be a temporary fix (like doubling your order and the drive-thru and giving the bum one meal and eating one yourself) or contribute to the problem by giving money which may well be used to support a habit deleterious to the well-bring of the person you are trying to help. You can assuage your conscience for whatever reason it troubles you, peel off a $5 or a $10, and walk away feeling you have done your part without considering the end consequences of this action. Finally, you can donate to a responsible organization which applies the donation to the intended purpose rather than soaking up a large percentage in overhead costs (or you can blindly give and get your feel good fix is that is your thing).

It is indeed a complex issue with no simple answers to be found.

One last footnote: I do indeed have a problem with the ramp hustlers for safety reasons. Just for example, a few years back one had positioned himself and his sign on median on the south side of the turn lane for the ramp from southbound Alisonville Road to eastbound 465 such that it was not possible to see oncoming traffic while attempting to make a left turn!

 

[IndyUSMC]

WishTV investigation from 2010.

I-Team 8 investigation: Panhandlers

Panhandling parents found across US

 

[jblomenberg16]

I've offered food/water to a few that legitimately looked like they needed it...all but one so far has rejected. I never give money...ever...no matter how pathetic they look and how hard it might pull at my desire to help others.

When our home was under construction a few years ago, I was driving out to work on the wiring, and noticed a guy in a very unusual spot to be "begging." It was on a country road, where there isn't a lot of traffic for him to scam people. Instead, it looked like he was trying to walk from point A to point B and was taking the proverbial back-way to cut the total distance down. He was along the side of the road resting, and it was about 100deg out.

I drove by, and then literally had the "what every you have done for the least of these brothers of mine" scripture verse pop into my head. I stopped about 100yds up the road, and backed up (remember...this was on a country rode). I parked a little ways from him, and then slowly walked up. I had his attention of course and he immediately looked at me when I parked with a very wide-eyed face.

(For the sake of this being a gun forum, yes I was packing, and yes I was assessing the situation to see if he may just have been lying in wait for a victim).

I had a cooler full of Gatorade, water, and Snickers (quick energy for me when working). I offered him one of each. He graciously accepted the water and gatorade, but declined the snickers after pointing to his mouth. He managed a smile and displayed some pretty nasty rotted out and broken off teeth. Not that the candy bar would have hurt them, but it was probably not even possible for him to eat something that required effort to bite and chew.

He took a careful drink of the water, enough to wet his mouth, then screwed the lid on it tightly and thanked me repeatedly. He said he was going to rest a while longer and then be on his way.


To me that is the test...if they are truely in need, the will accept food or water, as that is vital to survival. If they refuse, that says to me they are just out to make a buck.

 

[newdumdum9825]

I woul be the one to stand there with a sign saying..... Not poor, have a job, just wanna say hi

 

[Ted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OQjlzh279E

 

[Classic]

The Stossel video was priceless. Says it all. Nothing worse than a thief - that's what freeloaders are.

 

[jbombelli]

Did you forget your purple text in here somewere?

The difference is, I work hard for my money and so do most people that are being approached. I'm not about to give any to people that prey on the weak. I work in a downtown area and have see this crap on a day to day basis. Some of these people are not completely helpless and they know exactly what they are doing. Sometimes I just sit back and watch bums ask certain people for money and completely pass by others. They ask mostly women, well dressed businessmen, and almost all young people who look like they are coming from or going to work. Some of them are actually quite dangerous. There is no telling what kind of diseases these people have. Its biological warfare if you ask me. When I was a little younger, I was approached early in the morning by a man who was dressed like a construction worker. He fed me a line of BS (proven against other people's encounters) and then showed me his hands. They were all bloody from fresh self-inflicted cuts. They were all over his hands inside and out. I got out of there before he tried to shake my hand. From what I heard from other people, he definitely was going to try to touch me with his bloody hands.

No. I was quoting somebody else. I remembered hearing this on the radio a while back, and so I had to look it up. I quoted the part that was pertinent to the discussion at hand.

"This homeless guy asked me for money the other day.
I was about to give it to him and then I thought: “He’s just going to use it on drugs or alcohol.”
And then I thought, “That's what I'm gonna to use it on. Why am I judging this poor bastard?”

And you don't need to tell me how dangerous panhandlers can be. I saw a few things in Chicago that really bring that home. For example, a panhandler asked a guy for change, who told him to "**** off." He picked the guy up slammed him onto his head. On the sidewalk. And then ran off with a cop chasing after him. The cop was only about 20 feet away when he did that. Another panhandler pushed a guy down the steps of the subway downtown. Both those instances looked like they really hurt.

I don't give them ****. And I don't let them get the drop on me, either.

 

[SaintsNSinners]

I truely do empathize with them, I know what it was like. You know they say walk a mile in someones shoes before you judge them. I have walked the mile and more. If anyone has been to Madison Indiana you will understand, There are 5 jobs in Madison, You work at KYB, Walmart, Lowes or Kohls.

Let me give you a bit of background after military service I married my high school sweetheart. 10 months later I was left a divorced battered husband in a town that I knew no one. The closest homeless shelter was in Louisville.

I worked at Lowes. We lived in the old Proving Grounds 1351 Woodfill Road. Things got bad between US got drifted apart, and finally divorced. In October I moved into an unheated, unelectrified ammo bunker (I had discovered it after running during a beating)..

Every day was the same, the depression, the grief and confusion kept you up at night, you set your clock(watch, phone, as far away as possible hoping to god you will hear it and wake up, you sleep wearing everything you own to keep warm, walk to the closest gas station and wash yourself off, Go to work, drink yourself stupid hoping its all just a nightmare. And Repeat

I walked to Walmart where I had started and worked till 10pm from there I went to the bar, Drank my self stupid and walked home, repeated the same thing everyday for 3 months. I changed shifts at walmart and began working at walmart in the AM and Bob Evans at night, and was still going to the bar.

Between minimum wage, trying to eat, washing your clothes, and uncontrollable depression and alcoholism you have nothing left to save. Sometimes you sell something you own just to scrape by.

Eventually I was let go from walmart and bob evans because I was unreliable (walmart) unshaven (bob evans) Another blow to the psyche. The drinking intensified..

Now I had no job, no address, Trying to get unemployement with no address was a nightmare and I gave up.

The places you seek help, churches, social services, fire station, police, They all think your story is a crock or you are a scammer, All because the little bit of humanity you have keeps you and your clothes clean.

Every day from here on out consists of sobering up, realizing its not a nightmare, cleaning your self up, applying for jobs, applying for benefits, and then finally drinking so much you end up passing out sometimes in your own vomitus.

Its here where things become different, your drunk and sober times begin to blur together, food becomes scarce eating once a day or every other day, you sell things you find in dumpsters, onthe side of the road or the few remaining cherished items you own,Some sell, others beg, Cheap alcohol becomes plentiful, the nightmares worse and the reality of admitting you are slowly dying becomes acceptable.

Eventually you psyche and hope dies, you stop looking for work or help, you end up passing out behind the bar or other buildings. You no longer care.


For me its hard to judge the homeless on the side of the road. Whether they scammers or not I just cant risk it being someone going through the hell I do, I will buy them a hot meal, drive them to Wheeler or pull any strings I have for them. If its a veteran (by word or sign) its a hot meal, whatever cash I have and a ride if I can give them one. The effects of homelessness are long lasting, I lose my mind and freak out if there is no food in the house or I cant buy dinner, I have to be careful with drinking since my limit is way beyond normal. If I cant pay a bill due to being short on funds i get depressed. There are weeks at a time I cant remember anymore.

I got lucky and caught a real big break... I was pulled from the muck and ire and saved.

If you had asked me back then I would have laughed at you and told you I wasnt depressed. PTSD with dissociation. Even people now still laugh and think battered husbands are a myth or joke. Couple in a morale crushing battery with a society who laughs at it and homelessness you have a hopeless situation.

I myself cannot risk denying help to anyone because that could be me.

 

[Raskolnikov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OQjlzh279E

This is sickening...

 

[draftsman]

There is plenty of help for people in this day and age. Food pantries, faith-based charities, community run places where people can get food and shelter and help getting them back on their feet.

They don't need to be standing at intersections endangering their lives or causing distractions for drivers.

About 12 years ago I changed jobs and started taking I-465 to get there. At the time my wife worked for a group that helped mentally ill and drug addiction population. She made a spread sheet to hand out w/ all shelters and food pantries in indy for work. I started handing copies of these assistance sources out. 12 years later I still see the same people on the corner.